Brahms/Holloway Symphony in F minor Op.34b

[terry martyn]

There's the Berio orchestration of the Clarinet Sonata,of course. Although I am a lover of clarinet concertos, I am afraid that I find this combination rather unappealing.

[jasthill]

From what I gather, there are quite a few "symphonizations" of pieces by Brahms,

Don't forget these:
Eleven Chorale Preludes, op.122, orchd. by: Detlev Glanert, Erich Leinsdorf, Virgil Thomson, Henk de Vlieger
Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 3 in D Major after Violin Concerto, Op. 77 (Arr. Lazić)
Brahms: Handel Variations: Edmund Rubbra
Liebeslieder-Walzer: Richard W. Sargeant, W. Weismann

Schoenberg probably did the most damage with his orchestration (extra composition) of the Piano Quartet, the other seem to be straight (here's how Brahms might do it) orchestrations.
I say the old man (Brahms) would be cross and a bit chippy over all this, more interventions then Bruckner got with his symphonies.

[hyperdanny]

Of course you're right about the Schoenberg, it's basically crazy, and beggars belief that he could ever claim it was faithful to Brahms, but to me the Rubbra is somewhat crazier still.
It's even less Brahmsian, and definitely Handelian (after all it's the Handel variations..), and definitely not what you would expect from an Englishman.
Don't get me wrong, I love it: every now and then I blast the Cleveland/Ashkenazy recording at high volume, and I have an absolute ball, but the Old Bearded One would have had a fit.

[Ilja]

I was really mainly discussing "new" Brahms symphonies rather than orchestrations in general. But now that we're talking, and before Alan gets the chance to flog me, I wanted to point out Georgii Cherkin's arrangement of the Paganini Variations. Cherkin seems to make them as ante-Rachmaninovian as possible, which begs the question of whether such a "personal" arrangement is preferable to creating "quasi-Brahms" - although I suppose the talent and good judgment of the arranger is key.

[Jonathan]

Personally, I really dislike the "Piano Concerto no.3" after the Violin concerto. It just doesn't work (IMHO, of course)

[Alan Howe]

Audio excerpts are available at Presto:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9468212--brahms-by-arrangement-volume-two-orchestrations-by-robin-holloway

The 'Symphony' is a big piece at just over 44 minutes. From the excerpts, I'm wondering whether this might be the best orchestration yet of a work by Brahms.

[Ilja]

That probably depends on whether your idea of "best" equals "most Brahmsian". It sounds a lot more exciting than the De Vlieger version, that's for sure. Must-buy for me, and it'll be hard to wait until May 5th.

[Alan Howe]

Actually, by 'best' I just meant one that works, i.e. that doesn't make me constantly think of the original.

[eschiss1]

and of course- presumably?- which works in the sense that it sounds like it could have been written as a symphony (whether in the style of Brahms' symphonies is less relevant).

In a similarish case, someone pointed out the distinction between piano duet arrangements (e.g., different case here) and piano duet rehearsal reductions being that the former sound like real pieces written for piano duet, the latter being just meant to be accompany the solo part (in rehearsals, competitions, ...) but don't actually represent the whole original piano/orchestra (or whatever) score as actual works the same way-- for example, again.

I adore the Schoenberg not because Brahms might have orchestrated it that way any more than Bach would have orchestrated the Ricercare as Webern does, but because they're, to my ear, very enjoyable orchestrations of the works in styles their arrangers were wholly comfortable with, etc.

[terry martyn]

I am not sure about this purchase.

The plus side is that a firstclass orchestra with a committed conductor is performing.

The big minus is I don't particularly warm to the excerpts. How often do I listen to Brahms nowadays? Is this a bridge too far for me?

I think I am going to sit on the fence and wait until I get an opportunity to hear the whole work before I place an order.

[Alan Howe]

Brahms is not exactly an easy listen. He's often quite an 'intellectual' composer, so I sympathise. I have long come to the conclusion that his music wouldn't feature in my 'desert island discs', much as I enjoy, for example, the great Violin Concerto. Over recent weeks, for example, I have taken great pleasure from listening to Mirecki's fine Symphony...

[Mark Thomas]

My "go to" Brahms listens are the concertos and the First Symphony, but I have to be in a "Brahms mood" to even think of listening to any of them. My desert Island would probably be Brahms-free too.

[Ilja]

While I love at least three of the four symphonies (and sometimes all four), the concertos are a more difficult listen for me, simply because I find them on the longish side for their material. Increasingly, I feel that generally speaking the sweet spot for "regular" concertos lies around the 30-35 minute mark, with only a few exceptions (Moskowski's 1st PC being one, the Dvorak 2nd Cello Concerto another).

Having said that, Brahms on top form (1st and 4th symphonies, F minor Piano Quintet, F major Piano Quartet and quite a few more) is just balm to the ears.

[eschiss1]

... A major pf quartet or F major quintet? I adore both and would add some of the music for chorus or double chorus, e.g.

[John Boyer]

Having said that, Brahms on top form (1st and 4th symphonies, F minor Piano Quintet, F major Piano Quartet and quite a few more) is just balm to the ears.

Did you mean the A major Pf Qt?

Pretty much anything by Brahms would make my desert island list. 

[Disclaimer: the views expressed by others on this thread are entirely their own. The participation by the present author is in no way an endorsement of those opinions.]