The Symphony in Germany/Austria 1827-50

[chill319]

Norbert Burgmueller's influence on Schumann and Brahms is well known, but if memory serves Schumann spoke of him a composer of great promise rather than of specific achievements. So I agree he's a good candidate, but I'm not sure if his symphonies influenced either.

Instead, I would like to nominate Franz Schubert for this category since his great C-major symphony (variously 7, 8, or 9) was first performed in 1839 (published 1840). I'm not sure if any symphony between Beethoven's 9th and that premier had such an impact.

Judging from it's opus number, F. Hiller's published symphony was written after 1850.

Outside of Germany/Austria, but definitely within their cultural periphery, some of the most interesting symphonies from the '30s and '40s were being written by Berwald, don't you think?

[chill319]

Regarding JimL's reply 28: In April 1817 Schubert wrote three keyboard movements (D612, D613). Two are sonata form movements (with unnotated recaps), both developments showing a strong interest in concerto-like figurations; the slow movement revels in Fieldian filligree. It's a path Schubert didn't end up taking, but here he is exploring it.

[JSK]

I can't say to much about less-famous symphonies that are specifically German/Austrian from that period, but if you are looking for some other symphonies which were influenced a lot by German composers, the symphonies of Berwald and Farrenc are excellent.

[Marcus]

Here is a list of composers from Germany/Austria/Bohemia ?, of symphonies, who may fall into this category - ( I haven't yet researched it ). Composers born after 1770 (Beethoven's birth), & up until 1838, presuming that none (in this list), would have written symphonies before age 12 !(hence the 1838) Of course there may be some exceptions, and some wrote their symphonies before 1827,but this list may stimulate some more discussion:
A.J.Reicha (Bohemia) 1770-1836, C.G.A.Bergt (SaxonyO1772-1837, J.W.Tomaschek (1) (1774-1850), Ignaz Seyfried  (Austria) 1776-1841), Franz Weiss (Austria) (1778-1830), Ferdinand Ries (Germany) 1784-1838), Louis Spohr (Germany) (1784-1859), J.C.F.Schneider (Germany) (1786-1853), C.M von Weber, (Germany) (1786-1826) - (doesn't quite qualify).  F.E.Fesca (Germany) (1789-1826) (same as Weber), A.Huttenbrenner (Germany) (1794-1868), J.B.Birnbach (Germany) (1795-1879), Franz Schubert (Germany) (1797-1828) (just made it ?), K.G.Reissiger (Germany) (1798-1859), J.W.Kalliwoda, (Bohemia) 1801-1860), W.B.Molique (Germany) (1802-1869), F.Lachner (Germany) (1803-1890), J.Benedict (Germany/England) ( 1804-1885), H.L.E.Dorn (1) (Germany) (1804-1892), J.F.Kittl (Bohemia) (1806-1868), F.Mendelssohn (Germany) (1809-1847), A.F.Hesse (Germany) (18009-1863), N.Burgmuller (Germany) (1810-1836), F.David (Germany) (1810-1873), R.Schumann (Germany) ( 1810-1856), K.J.Becker (1) (Germany) (1811-1859), F.Hiller, (Germany) (1811-1885), F.Liszt (Germany) (1811-1886) (after 1850?), V.Lachner, (Germany) (1811-1893), K.G.W.Taubert, (Germany) (1811-1891), H.Hirschbach (Germany) (1812-1888), J.Reitz (Germany) (1812-1877), C.G.P Gradener (Germany) ( 1812-1883), R.Wagner (Germany) (1813-1883), F.R.volkmann (Germany) ( 1815-1883),F.Spindler (Germany) (1817-1906), H.Esser (Germany) (1818-1872), A.Conradi (Germany) (1821-1873), J.J.Raff (Germany) (1822-1882), S.Bagge (1) (Germany) (1823-1896), K.J.Bischoff (Germany) (1823-1893), A.Bruckner (Austria) (1824-1896), G.E.Goltermann (Germany) (1824-1898), C.H.C.Reinecke (Germany) (1824-1910), A.von Doss (Austria) (1825-1886), L.Ehlert (Germany) (1825-1884) (pupil of Schumann & wrote a Spring symphony), J.J.Bott (Germany) (1826-1895), E.Buchner (Germany) (1826- ?), A.Fischer (Germany) (1827-1893), W.Bargiel (1) (Germany) (1828-1897)(symphony in C), A.H.Dietrich (Germany) (1) (1829-1908), H von Bronsart (Germany) (1830-1913) ( 2 symphonies entitled In the Alps, Powers of Fate), S.jadassohn (Germany) (1831-1902), J.J.Abert (Bohemia) (1832-1915), L.Damrosch (Germany) (1832-1885), K goldmark (Germany) (1832-1915), O.Bach (Austria) (1833-1893), F.Bendel (Bohemia) ( 1833-1874), J.Brahms (Geramany) (1833-1897) (definately a non-qualifier), A.E.A.Becker (Germany) (1834-1899) (a symphony in G minor), F.A.B.Draeseke (Germany) (1835-1913), R.Emmerich (Germany) (1836-1891), H.Schulz-Beuthen (Austria) (1838- 1915).
There are obviously many more names to be added here, but this is a fair selection. There are no English, Dutch,Belgian, French composers listed although some spent years away from Germany/Austria. Germany covers alot of territory, ,so some imagination is necessary. I included Bohemia because of its close assocaiation with major German composers of the time. Many of these composers, particularly those born after 1825 would not qualify, but I list them just in case someone can refute that. My main sources here are  "The Story of the Symphony, E.Markham- Lee (publ.1915), & some other information from  Cyclopedia Music & Musicians,Oscar Thompson (1975) ,Baker's Biographical Dictionary Composers & Musicians (1988), & W.Pratt's History of Music (1907)& The New Encyclopedia of Music & Musicians (1934).
As my main interest is the symphony,  I am about to compile a list of composers from1750  to the present, but particularly between 1770 and 1910. this may take years, but hopefully I'll live long enough !
I hope I haven't put anyone to sleep , but if I have, happy dreams !

Cheers !
Marcus.

[Marcus]

In addition to my previous list:
Carl Loewe's Symphony in D minor (1831) recorded on the old Koch label.
Also not forgetting the Tyrolean symphonists :
J.Rufinatscha (1812-1893), J.B.Gansbacher (1778-1844), J.Netzer (1808-1864), M.Nagiller (1815-1875).
L.S.Meinardus  (Germany) (1827-1896), wrote two symphonies which were highly praised by Franz Liszt.
I have a further list of 30 + ,but I think I have probably caused enough confusion for now.
Cheers!

[JimL]

I think that Loewe composed at least one other symphony.  I have that old Koch CD (with the 2nd PC) and IIRC, the liner notes mentioned that the D Minor Symphony was his 2nd.  Of course, ICBM.

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, Loewe has two symphonies to his credit. The D minor, which was available on Koch, is his First. The Second (in E minor) was performed in 2004 in Germany and the live concert broadcast. It's a very attractive, vigorous work.

[FBerwald]

Would Louise Farrenc (1804–1875) fit in here. She certainly fits the time span except she wasn't German! She seems to have written 3 symphonies.... 1842, 1845, 1847.

[chill319]

Walter Frisch, Brahms: The Four Symphonies, has an interesting list of symphonists presumably known to Brahms. Though mostly outside the parameters of this thread (the list begins in 1851), the dates given are publication dates so that some of the earlier symphonies were undoubtedly played in the 1840s. (For example, Spohr's 8th symphony was published 1854, his 9th the previous year.)
As publishers expected some return on investment, inclusion in the list probably measures at least of some degree of historical importance, and there are some intriguing names on it from the Mendelssohn generation: Kufferath, Goltermann, Verhulst, Esser, Rietz, among others.

Frisch's book is available in preview (and the list can be viewed in full) on Google Books. It's on pp. 7-10.

The very positive reception of Nicolai's two symphonies from the 1830s together with his pivotal role in founding and directing the precursor to the Vienna Philharmonic gives his work special interest, too, I believe.