Giovanni Bottesini

[Maury]

Obviously Giovanni Bottesini was a noted 19th C. double bass virtuoso. Unlike most such  instrument virtuosos, he wrote quite a lot of music in genres and for ensembles outside of his specialty. I have CDs of his string quartets and quintets along with a couple of his more well known double bass pieces. I started this thread because I was a bit puzzled by the relative lack of mentions here except en passant. As far as I can tell this is the first thread dedicated to his music. Is he considered not an Unsung or is there some other reason for the lack of discussion? To me while his double bass music is obviously a mainstay for that instrument, his other music seems to be invisible.I know he wrote operas as well but have not been able to find any recording of them except for the Ali Baba overture. If I have somehow strayed off the reservation with this thread feel free to delete.

[terry martyn]

I first encountered Bottesini on the flipside of an LP mainly devoted to Paganini (his Fourth,from memory).  I imagine that the CDs you are referring to are from Naxos and cpo.  I have always found him eminently listenable,and melodies from the Grand Duo readily spring to mind.  Apart from the likes of the frontline composers such as Verdi and Paganini,Italian orchestral music,and particularly,concertante works,have not been tremendously in vogue. When you occasionally encounter Bazzini,for example,and his dashing,Fourth Violin Concerto,I am surprised that more interest has not been shown.

[Maury]

Thanks for your reply. Yes pre WW1 Italian composers have a pigeon hole (opera) that they must reside in or they will be ignored by the critics and then the public. I understand that. Paganini is rather a special case. My question is why he seems to be ignored here too relatively speaking? I believe the LP you refer to has been reissued on Sony Essential Classics CD series wiih Ricci and Petracchi and Francescatti. The quintets I have are on SOMM with I Musicante while the Quartets are on Dynamic. I did not see the Quartets issued on Naxos or CPO. Do you have the citations for them?  I have seen CPO and  Naxos CDs of his orchestral pieces.

I agree on Bottesini's double bass writing; it is quite marvelous and light footed for  a double bass. But I can understand why classical audiences don't rush to hear them. Other than for violin, cello  or piano, concertos are unsung by major orchestras.

[Alan Howe]

Yes pre WW1 Italian composers have a pigeon hole (opera) that they must reside in or they will be ignored by the critics and then the public

Nevertheless, Sgambati and Martucci are two very impressive Italian pre-WW1 non-operatic composers. Two of my absolute favourites, especially in their symphonies and piano concertos.

[Maury]

I agree about Sgambati and Martucci but at least they have a few dedicated threads here which is why I didn't reference them too. But the works of all 3 are not merely enjoyable but dynamic and exciting. A shame for their neglect.

[Alan Howe]

Marco Enrico Bossi would be another name to explore as much of his output pre-dates WW1.

Others would be Michele Esposito and Leone Sinigaglia.

[Hector]

Bottesini wrote chamber music - quartets and quintets, that have been recorded. They continue in the manner of Boccherini and Paganini, that is an Italianate concern for melody over motivic development. I value him  as part of that Italian tradition of instrumental writing that almost disappeared in the 1800's.

[eschiss1]

I'd insert early 1800s (unless you mean the decade). Italian chamber music toward the end of the 19th century- or even after 1860 or so, judging from manuscripts available online- continues a tradition of good melody with, in some composers, a serious interest in working-through (Durchführung, to adapt a term).*

*(I mistrust the word "development"; give me a "fantasia-development" that doesn't actually quote any of the movement's themes over a "developmental" repetition of themes that halts the piece in its tracks and misses the -dramatic- point of what the middle section's actually supposed to do- I'm looking at you, Dvorak symphony 9 finale e.g.- any day.)

[Maury]

Regarding the "development" section of sonata I'm reminded of the joke that we have Time so that everything doesn't happen at once. Conceptually there is a certain structural relationship between Sonata form and an expanded Rondo form and composers used that latter form fairly often.

Going back to Bottesini, I hear enough variation of melodic and rhythmic elements in the Italianate style of his movements that I don't get bored with it, as I often do with less capable Italian composers.   And of course his double bass music is simply breath taking.

[Alan Howe]

I must admit I've tried Bottesini's music for double bass and found it unlistenable. My loss, no doubt.

[Maury]

We all have our preferences as well as things we like and dislike without being able to explain it too. But unlistenable is a strong term. Is it the sound of the instrument itself that you dislike or something about the melodies if I may ask. For me orchestral cymbals are unlistenable but they don't have much musical structure or melody.    

[semloh]

Many decades ago, Gary Karr toured Europe displaying his virtuosity on the d-bass, and popularized it as a solo/concerto instrument. Several LPs appeared, mostly of Bottesini, which I purchased, and I must say I rather like them, especially the 2nd concerto, although I am constantly wanting the d-bass to become a 'cello! 

[Maury]

Musical tastes for or against different instruments are difficult to change. I do remember the Gary Karr tours. He was a particular favorite of Japanese record buyers apparently because Japan King issued an extensive series of audiophile recordings of him in the late 80s  and early 90s. I was a high school violinist so I am not as partial to viola and cello solo sound (as opposed to section ensembles which I like unreservedly). A little knowledge is dangerous I suppose. The viola and cello are rather undersized for the range of the instruments and I hear a slight nasality to the sound, particularly higher notes. But most people don't hear them that way. Ironically in spite of its size the double bass has a softer sound without much dynamic projection except on the E string.

[Alan Howe]

It's to do with timbre and tuning, I find. As I said, my loss.