Edouard Silas

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for that, pcc. You continue to intrigue us...

[Martin Eastick]

Having had a more detailed examination of Silas' piano works that I have, I would revise my earlier opinion somewhat, as whilst the overall quality is uneven, there are certainly a number of pieces worthy of further study and performance. I also have a copy of the 1st piano trio (published by Cramer Beale & Co, plate no.5126, which probably dates it at from the early 1850's).. The British Library hold a much later edition by Augener c.1890, along with copies of the other three - Op27, Op46 & Op91, Certainly the Trio that I have (I think I have somewhere seen reference to this as his Op26 - I cannot recall exactly where unfortunately - and this is certainly lacking on the title page), shows considerable promise, and if only someone could investigate/obtain copies of the other three (obviously considering the hideously unreasonable copying costs at the BL), this could be a possible recording perhaps?

[eschiss1]

If Worldcat stops asking me to identify buses etc. and I can find copies elsewhere (very big ifs) I am very interested in trying to scan (and upload to IMSLP and etc) a copy so obtained, but that's unlikely I realize...

BNF has some of his works in their collection, one so far available for download (including the same Katto (Katts?) version of the Op.62 mass). He was Belgian, so KBR unsurprisingly has a few listed (not yet? downloadable) as well.

[eschiss1]

Re Amarante, the published score I see (by Richault, 1854) doesn't give Op.6, but perhaps a different publication does. Will change the page I uploaded/mirrored from BNF to IMSLP just now. Can you confirm that the Amaranth you have on recording, if you have time, is the one I uploaded? It's not accessible directly on the page -yet- but can be accessed via the BNF/Gallica-digital link BNF.  Adagio in E-flat minor, then Allegro in E-flat major...

[Gareth Vaughan]

The Juilliard appears to have copies of Trios 1 and 3 (Op. 46), and the RCM hold Opp. 27 and 46.

[Martin Eastick]

Firstly, Eric, an apology for carelessly giving misleading incorrect information in my previous post regarding Amaranth. Op6 (added in brackets by me as was NOT quoted in the notes accompanying the Sony CD) is incorrect, and should read Op12, which is shown on the British Library copy entry relating to an edition by Edwin Ashdown of 1887. I have what is almost certainly the first English edition: Cramer Beale & Co, with plate no.5251, which I believe to date from 1854. As the edition by the same publisher of the C minor trio  (No1) is plate no.5126, and if Op12 is actually correct for Amaranth, then presumably the trio should have originally been allocated an opus number between 1 and 11.

I have a number of Silas' piano works published by Cramer Beale & Co. from around the same period, but most of them lack opus number unfortunately, and Pazdirek's listing has many substantial gaps........

[eschiss1]

Amarante and Amaranth are both "Characteristic composition"s, both published in 1854 it seems. Won't be surprised if they are the same, then (The IMSLP version is unblocked so it can now be viewed there too, if one has an account.) As to the trios, Juilliard also has the first trio and Op.46.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Juilliard also has the first trio and Op.46.

That's exactly what I reported two posts above, Eric.

[Martin Eastick]

Just to confirm Eric's conjecture, Amarante & Amaranth ARE one and the same!

[eschiss1]

Thank you and apologies for asking what must have seemed a silly question. I did mean it on musical, not linguistic grounds

[Simon]

It's a shame, but sadly it's pretty clear that Alan [Krueck] misidentified No.28 as Silas' A major Symphony. Whilst that wasn't premièred or published until 1863 (i.e. safely after the Vienna competition), the piece as published isn't a Symphonie-Ode, it lacks a motto and it's slow movement (Adagio quasi Andante rather than Andante) not only comes second in order but also lacks an organ part. I can only assume that Alan hadn't seen the score now available at IMSLP before he made his guess.

So, having eliminated Silas, I wonder who the composer of the intriguing Symphonie-Ode was?

I couldn't be more sure that I've solved the mystery regarding the authorship of the Symphony identified as No.6 in the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde Symphony Competition. I found the answer thanks to the motto "Nous, tandis que de joie...". And here is how I did it.

In the 1878 edition of "Mémoires de la Société académique des sciences, arts, belles-lettres, agriculture et industrie de Saint-Quentin", on page 58, appears the "Rapport de M. C. Tingry [...] sur le concours de composition musicale" (a report by C. Tingry on a musical competition for the composition of a cantata, held by the Société académique de Saint-Quentin - France - in 1877). It is available here:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k4156500/f56.item

The winning cantata was performed for the first time on November 26th, 1877, and the complete programme of the concert is given on page 62. Tingry, who was the Directeur de l'École Municipale de Musique de Cambrai (Cambrai is a little less than 50km from Saint-Quentin), and a member of the board for the competition, was given the opportunity to conduct his own Symphonie en La, inédite (unpublished).

Each of the four movements of that symphony are listed, and they have highly descriptive titles, including the second one, Presto : La Nuit, Chasse fantastique, and the third one, Adagio : Hymne du Matin. One more detail is added: following that list of movements, one can read the words of Victor Hugo, beginning with "Nous, tandis que de joie au loin tout vibre et tremble". Those two titles and that verse are perfect matches for the ones given in Volkmann's letter about the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde competition about the No.6!

The entry for Volkmann's letter is available here, beginning on page 175:
https://archive.org/details/briefemiteinembi00volk/page/176/mode/1up?q=Motyo

Back to Tingry, in the same report, beginning on page 63, an article by a local newspaper is published, following the performance of the symphony, with an enthusiastic review on pages 66-67.

But what about the date of the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde Symphony Competition vs that 1877 performance, and where is the manuscript of this remarkable symphony by Tingry located? The answers are to be found on the website of the Répertoire de la Symphonie Française entre 1830 et 1870, and it includes the date when Tingry began to compose his symphony, 10 Mars 1860 (March 10th, 1860):

http://www.ums3323.paris-sorbonne.fr/SYMPHONIES/indexbd.php?ope=oeuvres&select_oeuvres=45

The instrumental parts are available at the BNF:

https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb448909493

And the orchestral score is there as well:

https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb448909509

There it is, No.6 in A major, submitted for the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde Symphony Competition, is by Célestin Tingry (1819-1892)!


I rest my case!

[eschiss1]

I see Tingry's IMSLP page only has one work of his at present, and it's not that , but does mention that a fair amount of his music has been digitized, which suggests that, if any of his works (including that symphony or 5 string quartets or etc.)- are interesting enough, a new thread might be a good idea...

[Mark Thomas]

Well done, Simon! That's all most convincing and I've PMed you about it. My only doubt is that Volkmann mentions a prominent organ part in the slow movement and, unless I've missed something, an organ isn't mentioned in the instrumentation given on the Répertoire de la Symphonie Française listing. Now, of course, having had the great benefit of hearing the symphony by Albert Becker which came second to Raff's An das Vaterland in the Vienna competition (thank you, Reverie), I'm very curious to hear this symphony about which Volkmann gave such tantalising clues. It's a shame that neither the autograph nor the parts are digitised.

[Simon]

My only doubt is that Volkmann mentions a prominent organ part in the slow movement and, unless I've missed something, an organ isn't mentioned in the instrumentation given on the Répertoire de la Symphonie Française listing.

First of all, thanks for the good words, Mark!
The organ part is in Symphony No.28. My post was related to No.28 because Tingry's Symphony (entry No.6) was a contender in this same competition. My original post might have been a little bit misleading (I've edited it since), since I misread Volkmann's letter, but Symphonies No.28 and No.6 were two different symphonies!

[Mark Thomas]

Ah, that clears that up. Thanks, Simon.