Establishing the female classical canon - a unique opportunity?

[Mark Thomas]

Unfortunately that sort of objective criteria has been abandoned generally, not just in music, in the modern liberal societies in which most of us live, so that's a total non-starter.

[John Boyer]

Returning to Ilja's original proposal, this might be the time to promote female composers that have fallen by the wayside but who have not yet been taken up in the current wave of interest in women composers. For example, I haven't heard too much in the way of a revival Chaminade, who I think deserves better. I also recently encountered the music of Maria Herz, who I think lies just outside the remit of our board but who is a good example of a composer who is worth investigating and whose chances are slightly higher right now.  Ilja is right to suggest taking advantage of things while you can. 

Act now!  This is a limited-time offer!  Operators are standing by!

Before you know it will be too late because the fad will have passed.  "Chaminade?  Because she was a girl?  Oh, John...that's *so* 2024.  We've moved on from that."

[eschiss1]

(Leo Strauss has entered the chat, apparently.)

[Alan Howe]

Unfortunately that sort of objective criteria has been abandoned generally, not just in music, in the modern liberal societies in which most of us live, so that's a total non-starter.

I think we can give it a fair go here. Between us we have the experience to come to some sort of reasoned judgment as to the worth of most of the music we encounter here.

I'm currently listening to Loewe's Symphony in D minor: we were right to highlight its virtues a couple of years back, and I guess Nick Barnard came to roughly the same conclusion:

In many ways this disc is an encapsulation of the sterling work that CPO has been doing over decades resurrecting the work of unknown or at least under-appreciated composers in musical impressive and technically accomplished recordings. I had no idea that Carl Loewe had written music like this. Apparently there was a recording of the D minor symphony on Koch-Swann (coupled with his A major piano concerto) which I have not heard and in any case that seems to be all but impossible to find copies of. Even if it were available, I would find it hard to believe that performance would supplant those given here. Once one accepts the choice of the HIP influenced style this is about as good as it could get with the music presented in the best possible light. Loewe's symphonies are not towering masterpieces but neither do they claim to be. However, if you enjoy early Romantic symphonies of genuine appeal and attractive musical content, there is much to enjoy.

There are evidently sensible people out there who agree with us.

[Ilja]

I think while the most prominent addition of new voices is certainly politically motivated, that is something different from the fact that these new voices are added to a canon that has been mostly petrified for decades. I'm more optimistic on that count, since we have already seen some shifts over past years, most notably the inclusion of national composers. Also, it is interesting to see which female composers gain entry and with what motivation. Because whatever you think about it, it is probably the biggest disruption of the concert repertory (which, by the way, is not something which I consider to be a gold standard of any sort) that we are likely to witness during our lifetime.

I think there's more than a political angle to 'Entartete Musik', though, because the result of the politics (in, for example, the Hitler period) was worthwhile music being suppressed or destroyed and composers being persecuted or murdered, mostly on account of their ethnic background. In other words, there are surely artistic and moral reasons to support music that falls into this category - providing it's of good quality, of course. We can leave the politics to others.

An aspect that should not be forgotten, and which I think remains within our remit is that the Entartete Musik project only reveals part of the story. Whole swathes of long established, romantic "suspect" music were banned by the Nazis (and other totalitarian regimes) on account of their composers' origins in the 1930s, and never taken up again after World War II. And the casualness with which I can still hear some people talk about certain music being "unworthy" of performance doesn't sound all that different.

[Mark Thomas]

I think we can give it a fair go here.

Oh, I quite agree. Here, yes, but just don't expect it in the wider musical world.

[Alan Howe]

but just don't expect it in the wider musical world.

It depends where you look. There are islands of enlightened journalism 'out there' and individual trailblazers doing excellent spadework. Think Howard Griffiths - and Schweizer Fonogramm.

I realise, though, that 'islands' of good practice aren't exactly 'the wider musical world'. But we plough on, don't we?

[eschiss1]

Ilja: seconded.

[eschiss1]

It's all in the details, as always- I won't begrudge well-played well-chosen encores any more than anyone else, of course and have sometimes actually received just that.
Out of curiosity, did Celibidache premiere unsung music, as Commissiona (with whom I unaccountably manage to confuse him name-wise) certainly did (not perhaps music within our remit, but still-unsung but worthy all the same)?

[Double-A]

Unfortunately that sort of objective criteria has been abandoned generally, not just in music, in the modern liberal societies in which most of us live, so that's a total non-starter.

I don't think that's fair, in fact it seems to me to insult this very forum.

Though I would say I have noticed a greater insistence on standards for "DEI" composers than for our "standard" persons of interest.  A few posts above I find praise of a Loewe symphony.  Is it any more attractive than those of Emilie Mayer?  Not in my ears, maybe rather the opposite.

Anyway, if the price for living in a liberal society is some artists being overvalued I'd say it's well worth it.

[Alan Howe]

I don't think that's fair, in fact it seems to me to insult this very forum.

There is a significant difference between the willingness to consider neglected repertoire on this forum and the closed-minded attitude of concert-promoters, many critics and much journalism.

[eschiss1]

In the US at least, where it seems fair to say that our orchestras barely perform even Bruckner outside his anniversary year (and not much then), there's little chance of the repertory being expanded in favor of anyone for any length of time.

[Mark Thomas]

Anyway, if the price for living in a liberal society is some artists being overvalued I'd say it's well worth it.

I completely agree with this sentiment and, for the record, I regard this forum as a blessed island of objectivity. As its founder, I'm hardly going to insult its members.

[Alan Howe]

Well said, Mark.

[John Boyer]

In the US at least, where it seems fair to say that our orchestras barely perform even Bruckner outside his anniversary year (and not much then), there's little chance of the repertory being expanded in favor of anyone for any length of time.

Eric, would you say that Bruckner is really that badly ignored here in the states? It seems to me that the major orchestras perform something by him every year, but that may just be a perception. I could look it up, but something tells me you have those performance statistics at your fingertips and would know more quickly and better.

If he does get ignored in the provinces, I think there are a few understandable reasons for this:

First, Bruckner is not a crowd pleaser. He's a tough nut to crack, so I can imagine conductors outside of New York or Boston being reluctant to take a chance on him.

Second, there is the expense of performing him.  All those extra winds, horns, and Wagner tubas place a strain on a regional orchestra's budget, especially to play a composer whose name is likely to cause the faint of heart to stay home.

Third, even if there were greater interest in him there's only so much Bruckner out there to play. When we think of him, we likely think of the nine symphonies and not too much else, even if there are other things. You can only play those nine so many times.

I'm curious what you think.  Perhaps I'm remembering how things were 15 years ago, back when I still attended performances.