Hurwitz on vibrato in Vienna

[Alan Howe]

I think he's right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjZ1oQKkKvI

[terry martyn]

If you wear a white scarf (and matching white gloves) with a tuxedo,you could be in for a very big surprise. THe last time I committed such a heinous act of tastelessness, I was mistaken for the late,great,operatically-trained Darryl Pandy's bouncer and handed a brown envelope brimming with twenty pound notes.

Hurwitz is right to call out Heras-Casado's historically inappropriate performance!

[Alan Howe]

Is there a wider application, though? How 'authentic' is much of the HIP infiltration of romantic-era orchestral repertoire? If Hurwitz can find records of how the VPO strings played, is it possible to find similar accounts of other orchestras' string-sound from the past?

[terry martyn]

I was thinking along the same lines, Alan. In this instances, Hurwitz has used his extensive (if not always deep) knowledge to good effect. Students of the Leipzig School could quite possibly share a light on this wider application. And Eric, always a mine of information, probably knows a lot more than Hurwitz does.

I am a little worried about one aspect of this.  How come this happened to be missed by those behind the making of this recording? We are all too aware,from our recent discoveries about Veit and Franke,that there is unauthentic, and then there is fake.

[Alan Howe]

It hasn't been missed: what we have to understand is that some aspects of HIP have been pursued to a ridiculous degree - and the Bruckner 4 recording in question is the result. Of course, one might also criticise the mid-20th century orchestral excess of certain conductors/orchestras as being responsible for this reaction in the opposite direction. As with most things, extremes are surely to be avoided...

[Maury]

When you become famous everyone wants to own you. Sorry Anton, but comes with the territory.

[Alan Howe]

But why now? Why is this fabulous music being ruined by modern-day anachronistic HIP extremism? Just because they can doesn't mean to say they should. Sometimes a performing tradition needs to be questioned. That's fine. But trashing it is another matter altogether. The Bruckner bicentennial has a lot to answer for...

Postscript: I think it's really important to listen in particular to the testimonies of conductors whose memories and experiences went back to the late nineteenth century. That generation has, of course, passed away, but we have their recordings and their writings. We should listen to them.

[Maury]

Mr Howe,

Part of the problem is something you have mentioned: there is an ongoing glut of re-recordings of everyone that has a recognized name rather than do the harder work of trying to bring some lesser known but quality works to public favor (this site and a few smaller labels). Yes such re-recordings sell better, if not well, than some unfamiliar work not given much advocacy. As I have said, if Heifetz and Milstein had not performed and recorded the Korngold and Glazunov VCs in these composers' years in the wilderness they would not even have name recognition and at least a fair amount of recordings. But if you are recording a composer amidst a glut the best way to market it is by saying you have discovered a new performance method or new version etc.

[Alan Howe]

The triumph of marketing over artistic principle? Who'd've thought it? A gullible public, evidently, and money-grubbing marketeers.

[Alan Howe]

And now the Gramophone magazine (Awards issue) gives the Bruckner 4 recording in question a 'G' rating, indicating an Editor's Choice. No wonder Hurwitz is in permanent conflict with some of the classical music press...

[Maury]

The press always runs with whatever they think is the trend. I should have predicted this. My bad.

[Alan Howe]

There are multiple (x15) short excerpts available at Presto:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9643885--bruckner-symphony-no-4

It's not the worst HIP Bruckner I've heard, but there's no excuse for the lack of vibrato in the string section.

[Maury]

Yes I heard the available sound clips. It wasn't amateurish, just not a Bruckner performance worth listening to twice IMO. But the point is more about Gramophone and the other music press. They are nothing if not predictable.

[Alan Howe]

Yes, not awful - just inappropriate and odd. Hrmph!

[Maury]

What you said in post 4 is really the crux. The historical progression in the Romantic period was a merging of minor and major keys. Given the increased use and motion of bass instruments, the late Romantic music floats on a bed of somewhat indistinct harmony. Since the overtone series is major scale leaning, the chromatics and minor scales blur the overall bass overtones slightly. To impose the clarity of Baroque or most modern styles on this defeats the whole intent of what the composers were aiming for. It is the reverse of big soupy orchestras playing the Brandenburg Concertos. Hopefully this anachronistic HIP Romantic will fade eventually but I think it will get worse before it gets better. Hold on to your old recordings.