Tudor have packaged all nine of the CDs comprising Stadlmair's symphony cycle into one box (http://www.tudor.ch/produktinfo.php?id=785&sid=lQ0kl0pYkO3Rd9g@wAdNlQp1a9), complete with the four orchestral suites and a smattering of overtures and other orchestral works. It's already in stock at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/8dfbc077578a05336aa7239b147eb510/classic/detail/-/art/Joachim-Raff-Symphonien-Nr-1-11/hnum/9789993) for €69.99.
That's a whole lot cheaper than all the seperate CDs, but the many hours of listening pleasure we Raffians already had so far is priceless...
Yes, it's certainly bargain price, although I'm not sure how it stacks up against downloads. That said, it offers nothing new, as far as I can see, if you already have the separate CDs - the coupling on each CD is the same as the single issues and the booklet, which I have only looked at very briefly, seems to be a conflaion of those which came with each CD.
Does this include the "Shakespear Overtures" CD? There's also no indication if it's mearly the CDs in a slipcase (unliky with 9 I'll grant) or a real box set that saves space...
I may have to get this, though at over $100 it's a bit hefty....
I don't see it at MDT either, so it wouldn't be yet...
This is the best set of Raff symphonies by far. It is blessed with disciplined orchestral playing and an acute sense of Raffian style on the part of Stadlmair - lean textures, sprung rythms and authentic tempi. A classic - if only the critics would take the music seriously as one of the great 19thC symphonic cycles.
As ever, Alan has said it. If you want the Raff symphonies then Stadlmair's cycle is the one to go for overall. Have a look at the reviews on the Raff web site (http://www.raff.org). No, TerraEpon, no Shakespeare Preludes. The full list of contents is on the Tudor site link I gave at the start of this thread.
Well, as usual, I do not see this actually available anywhere in the U.S. :(
Why not contact Tudor about a US release date?
Huh, weird spam indeed.
Anyway, to answer my own question (though implied by Mark's first post), it's obviously a thinner box than just 9 fullsize CDs -- picture here: http://www.tudor.ch/produktinfo.php?id=785&sid=xXlQ3Ra@bxpY32kOd9wA00acdN
(I'd guess perhaps 4 2-fers and a single? Or Nine thin cases?). I ended up buying the Shakesphere CD (and like it more than the reviewer on Raff.org seemed to) and I figure I simply MUST get this set, though at the moment the only two buying options I've found are JPC and Tudor itself...I do hope it goes elsewhere, as the price is right now a bit high, especially for a reissue...
I've dealt with the spam, and the poster...
No, the box really is nine CDs - go to the Tudor web site (http://www.tudor.ch) to see the full contents of each of the CDs. They're in cardboard sleeves, which is why the box is thin.
The reason I was sniffy in my review about some, not all, of the music on the overtures CD is that I've heard the performancs of the same works recorded by Werner Andreas Albert and broadcast on German rdaio, but never published by cpo. Quite simply, they are better in some cases. That said, these aren't at all bad performances and of course I welcome them.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Monday 26 October 2009, 11:16
No, the box really is nine CDs - go to the Tudor web site (http://www.tudor.ch) to see the full contents of each of the CDs. They're in cardboard sleeves, which is why the box is thin.
Well yeah of course, I was just wondering how it was "set up" is all.
Mark, is there any chance of CPO issuing the rest of the Albert Raff recordings? I've heard he did all the symphonies and you just confirmed that he recorded at least the Shakespeare Overtures as well...
I for one think his performances of the last five symphonies are just as good and sometimes better than Stadlmair's.
Yavar
This finally appeared on MDT
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TUDOR1600.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TUDOR1600.htm)
Doesn't seem to be any cheaper there though, alas.
It's still little more per CD than you'd pay for Naxos CDs and around half the price of buying the CDs individually. Still, "you pays your money and you takes your choice".
Yavar wrote:
Mark, is there any chance of CPO issuing the rest of the Albert Raff recordings?
Sorry Yavar, I missed your post. The short answer is there there seems to be no prospect of it. Apparently, they recorded almost all of Raff's purely orchestral music in the late 1990s, pretty much mirroring the nine Tudor CDs in the box plus the Shakespeare Preludes and the Elegie. Unfortunately, it was the first co-production which cpo had undertaken with one of Germany's regional radio stations. The story as I've heard it is that there was a flaw in the contract, at least from cpo's point of view, which meant that they could not afford to produce the CDs. So, the recordings were broadcast (which is how I come to have some of them) but were never issued by cpo. Quite how the five final symphonies escaped into the open I don't know.
I strongly endorse the recommendations for the newly-repackaged nine-disc set of Raff's symphonies, suites and overtures from Tudor. When they were new, I collected the individual releases, but then (for reasons of space and economics, and not having had a chance to listen to them) I had a cull a couple of years ago and sold a large number of CDs including the Raff. Subsequently I regretted the decision! Now I have re-invested in the more compact presentation and am enormously impressed with what I have heard so far: truly first-class performances of a large swathe of a very significant composer's output.
Each disc comes in a cardboard sleeve which, thankfully, reproduces the attractive Arnold Bocklin artwork from the initial release. It is currently £78.99 on Amazon, but the best deal around seems to be with MDT (£57.50) which has an offer on all Tudor releases until 27th July 2010:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TUDOR1600.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//TUDOR1600.htm)
Also, postage by 2nd class within the UK is free for any order over £50 - any member unfamiliar with Raff shouldn't hesitate at this price.
I've listened to the entire Tudor boxed set twice now. I've never sat down and listened to all of the symphonies in order. What a joy it was! I've been a Raff fan for nearly 40 years (thank you Bernard Herrmann), but hearing the 11 symphonies in sequence, and in generally fine performances really reveals Raff's talent and, dare I say it?, genius. His melodic give in endearing and never flags. And his orchestrations are beautiful, especially the wind writing. Having listened this way has really reawakened a interest in Raff. The box was actually pretty cheap over here from Records International, cheap by Tudor standards to be sure.
My only complaint is the recording of #5, Lenore. The tempos are just too fast. It seems rushed and not well thought out. And the balances are bad: at the end of the closing group in the first movement exposition there's that wonderful series of chords in the trombones that I just love! But in the Tudor recording you can barely hear them. Other than that, no complaints from me.
Interesting. The Tudor performance of the 'Lenore' is the only one I've ever heard & the first time I had ever heard any music by Raff, at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, I liked it so much I bought the Tudor recording of the third. Is it really THAT bad?
No, it's OK. But D'Avalos on ASV just has everything: recording, orchestra, more imagination - but that's a personal opinion.
The Lenore in the Raff box is much better than the one on...Dynamic is it? at least.
Yes, it's an excellent performance, but then there's Herrmann's seminal recording....
See how funny opinions are? I love the Dynamic recording and the DAvalos, too. Needless to say Herrmann is still my favorite. The Tudor isn't awful, no, but not what it could have been. The worst (sound, performance and all) has to be Bamert on Koch.
And the Marco Polos all turn out to be better than one thought or remembered...
I sometimes find it's the first one you ever heard,unless it's particularly awful,of course.
The Herrmann does seem to have a special status amongst collectors, though.
I have only just invested in the entire MP set - and actually find the cycle to be generally well up to the standards of the Tudor set. I prefer the sound of the Slovak orchestra in nos. 2-11 and some of Schneider's tempi too, so I don't think the arguments are all in favour of Stadlmair.
Does anyone know which 4 overtures of Raff are on the 9-CD set offered by Tudor?
All the CDs are exact reissues of the previous. The overtures are coupled with Symphony #4, and are Benedetto Marcello Overture, Dame Kobold Overture, Die Parole Overture, and Concert Overture in F Op. 123.
:( As I thought. None of the Shakespeare overtures are in the set.
Quote from: Hofrat on Friday 14 May 2010, 08:15
:( As I thought. None of the Shakespeare overtures are in the set.
Nope...in fact I asked that above. Well worth buying the separate CD IMO (which I bought before the box, actually)
On the basis of some comments here I have just bought the Naxos cd's of No 1 and 3& 10,although I haven't received the latter yet,(fair play,the seller hasn't had much time to post it yet!). I also bought the Hyperion cd of 3 & 4. This will be the first time I have heard these works,bar No3,because I have the Tudor cd. I am thoroughly enjoying the 1st,which, according to a review on Musicweb,is every bit,or just about as good as the Tudor performance. What a wonderful symphony! I note,however,that it has a different conductor to some other Marco Polo cd's of Raff symphonies. Is this good news or bad news,I wonder?
Regarding the Hyperion cd,which I haven't got to yet. What are the views of Raff enthusiasts here. I'm afraid one of the reasons I bought it was price! I have read somewhere that the strings aren't quite up to the piece,but that it is otherwise,okay? Or is the only good thing about the performance the cover painting,by,I think,Dore,which is rather nice?!!!
The MK orchestra just isn't up to the music, in my view. For no.4, either the MP or Tudor disc is preferable.
Had a listen now. It sounds okay,but I bet when I put the Tudor disc on I'll notice the difference! Not having heard No 4 before, I have a feeling the performance is probably a little pedestrian,judging by what little Raff I've heard so far. The proverbial halfpenny worth of tar,perhaps? Still enjoyable though. I get the feeling the performers are doing their best with the resources they have. I had to replace the front of the cd jewel case though,tut,tut!
I used to have the Hyperion release of the 3rd and 4th symphonies - I think the word for most of the music-making on it is "polite". There doesn't seem to be any of the risk-taking that Stadlmier indulges in. I know that his occasional unexpectedly fast tempi have been criticised, but I have no problem with the vigour and energy of his interpretations - I would far rather have these qualities (as exemplified in the Walpurgisnacht scherzo of the 8th) than a cautious, turgid or merely 'dutiful' reading.
As a conductor, he is evidently a very intelligent and (by now) highly knowledgeable interpreter of Raff - as has been said before, he plays the music as though it was already part of a standard repertoire to which he is bringing his own ideas: ultimately this makes listening to his pioneering recordings fascinating from both the musical and the interpretative standpoint.
Thank you for these useful observations. This is the first time I have heard most of the Raff symphonies & just wanted to 'test the water',to use an analogy,before taking the plunge. 'Polite' or not,the performance on the Hyperion cd can't get in the way of my enjoyment of these symphonies,but I can certainly imagine them being done with a bit more vigour! In fact,I have got the Raff bug to such a degree I couldn't resist buying the Tudor cd of No's 8 & 10. Although,I did hesitate over an earlier recording of the 8th conducted by Gyorgy Lehel. Any comments on this performance,which I believe has a sort of place in 'Raff history',as a first ever recording? Is there anything going for it, at all,or it's companion piece,'Ode to Spring'? Or is it just a museum piece?
Quote from: Pengelli on Tuesday 18 May 2010, 18:50
This is the first time I have heard most of the Raff symphonies & just wanted to 'test the water',to use an analogy,before taking the plunge.
After taking the plunge with the Tudor box, I have just ordered the
Shakespeare Preludes (Tudor), the Suite for Piano and Orchestra (Sterling) and the first Violin Concerto (Sterling) - and probably (at least as far as the bank is concerned) sunk without trace!
VC1 on Sterling is probably my favourite Raff CD of all - such a glorious piece, restored to its pristine clarity and beauty in its original version. A work fully up to the standards of the repertoire VCs of its day.
I bought the Gyorgy Lehel conducted cd of Raff's eighth symphony,out of curiosity & the more recent Tudor cd of Symphonies 8 & 10. The Lehel just to see what it was like. Some people seem to think that it is quite a committed performance &the brass section is quite good. Also, it does seem to be a bit of Raff history,as a first recording! It might even help to underline exactly how much better the newer performance is. (The Raff website,as you know describes the Lehel's orchestra as overstretched?!).
Still can't get over just how good Raff is! Only five more symphonies to go.....
In fact Raff has succeeded in temporarily ousting Mozart & Langgaard from my turntable. ( But not Faure's piano or chamber music,which is arguably rather unsung. Anyway.....).
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 12 May 2010, 10:16
And the Marco Polos all turn out to be better than one thought or remembered...
In view of the great offer currently on the classicsonline website (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=927446 (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=927446)), I downloaded the Raff, Rubinstein and Spohr complete symphonies and have just finished putting them onto cd. Listening to another set of performances has really helped to fix some of the Raff in my memory (through comparison with the excellent Tudor set) and I really wanted to hear the unique extras (
Jubel-Overture,
Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott Overture and the
Festmarsch). I am surprised at just how good some of the Marco Polo recordings are - certainly superior to many from the same stable - I would encourage those who haven't heard them to give them a try. From what I have sampled of the other downloads, the Spohr are excellent and the Rubinstein certainly more than listenable.
...three more Raff symphonies,to go! I now have No's 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10 & 11. Oh,and the Piano Concerto,which arrived today. I want to get No 7 next,and have considered buying the cpo recording,which is praised on the Raff website. Unfortunately, the,(Jubel Overture), coupling ,doesn't appeal to me,so I think I'll go for the remaining Tudor disc(s),instead. As to a favourite? Probably,the eighth,if I had to choose one,followed by the 9th & 4th. The first symphony is, also, very impressive,and, to my mind,sustains one's interest, despite it's length. The 10th & 11th are,unsuprisingly,judging from what I have read,mainly on the excellent Raff site,less memorable in terms of themes,yet still very enjoyable. Indeed, it is quite possible, that I have been replaying my favourites so much,I just have't listened to them enough,yet,(probably!).
As to the piano concerto. A lovely work, (I've got it on in the background now). Unfortunately,it is not the one recommended by the Raff website,but the one on the Tudor label, conducted by Bamert.
Whatever qualities the Marco Polo recording of the 3rd may have, for me they are totally compromised by the large cut taken in the finale. I'm not sure where, but I recall someone long ago mentioning cuts taken in some of the later symphonies as well. And the 5th: at least in the cd I have, the 3rd movement is missing the first second or so. I hope the download corrects that.
Cuts? I don't like the sound of that! Anyone else here got any views about this?