Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: giles.enders on Monday 18 June 2012, 10:48

Title: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: giles.enders on Monday 18 June 2012, 10:48
Joseph Edward Street  born 1841 Surrey, England - died 1908 Surrey, England


Orchestral

Symphony No.1 in E flat  Op.4 1857
Symphony No.2 in D minor  Op.14  1862
Overture 'Two Gentlemen of Verona'  Op.8   1858 pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Concerto No.1 in E flat major  Op.20  1865
Piano Concerto No.2 in F minor  Op.24  1871

Chamber


Piano Quintet with double bass  Op.26  1872
String Quartet in E minor  Op.27  1875
Piano Trio No.1 Op.6  1858   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Trio No.2 Op.11  1863  pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel 
Violin Sonata in B flat No.1 Op.21   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Violin Sonata in E flat No.2 Op.28  1876  pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Cello Sonata in B flat  Op.22   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Seven variations with introduction and finale for cello and piano Op.18  1863

Piano

Piano Sonata No.1 in F sharp minor Op.15   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Sonata No.2 'Appassionata' Op.16  pub by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Sonata No.3  Op.17   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Sonata No.4 in F Op.19   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Sonata No.5 in C Op.23   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Piano Sonata No.6 in B flat minor Op.25   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Two Morceaux for piano Op.2   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Caprice  Op.7   pub. by Breitkopf & Hartel
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 18 June 2012, 14:28
The overture is his opus 8, published around 1858 by Breitkopf. (If these works were first published by British publishers, HMB won't catch that, but I'll see if I can find out in a bit and edit appropriately.)
The first piano trio is opus 6, also published ca.1858 (Breitkopf again unless otherwise noted.)
Piano Sonata No.1 is opus 15, pub.ca.1859.
Piano Sonata No.2 "Appassionata" is opus 16, pub.ca.1859.
Piano Sonata no.3 is opus 17, pub.ca.1860.
Piano Sonata no.4 was pub.ca.1863.
Piano Sonata no.5 - pub.ca.1869.
Piano Sonata no.6 Op.25 - pub.ca.1871/72. may not have survived or maybe just not in the libraries/... checked?
Symphony no.2 op.14 was published ca.1862.
The 7 Variations avec Introduction et Final for piano and cello op.18 were published  ca.1863.
Piano Trio No.2 op.11 dates to ca.1863 (again, publication date with all of these until one has reason to know better :) )
The first piano concerto is op.20.
The 2 Morceaux for piano op.2 and the caprice op.7 were republished (probably not first published) 1868.
Violin sonata no.1 op.21 - pub.1868. (ca. etc. etc. ...)
The cello sonata is op.22 not op.21 as you've probably noticed- bit the duplication there. Also published 1868.
The 2nd piano concerto Op.24 - perhaps premiered 1870? don't know- but published ca.1871 at least in Europe (July 1871 HMB.)
Piano Quintet Op.26 with double bass - pub.ca.1872.
String Quartet Op.27 - pub.ca.1874.
2nd violin sonata op.28 (listed as being in E-flat but who knows) yep, pub.ca.1876.

HMB is only sometimes accurate with keys (generally speaking; I can't say as to these scores in particular), which it often supplies (D for the 2nd symphony, B-flat for the first violin sonata, E-flat for the piano quintet, E-flat and A for the piano trios, F-sharp minor, E-flat minor, A minor, and A-flat major for the 1st 2nd 3rd and 6th piano sonatas for example)- I prefer to get my hands on a score...

Both the first violin sonata (indeed in B-flat) and the cello sonata quasi fantasia (in G) opp 21 and 22 are at IMSLP.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: giles.enders on Tuesday 19 June 2012, 16:39
For someone who we don't think much of I think we have done rather well for Street.  He must have written something worth while!
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 19 June 2012, 17:25
I hope so. I almost always like to give someone a chance . I gather though that the cellists and violinists on the forum who (1) have expressed any opinion about Street and (2) have had a look at the two sonatas posted to IMSLP were unimpressed... (and there was some mention of runthroughs of his symphonies and concerto solo parts etc. but those I haven't seen at all.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: giles.enders on Thursday 19 June 2014, 10:50
At one time he owned 'The Lady Blunt' Stradivarius violin.  His son was the famous clarinetist Oscar Street, there are a series of letters between him and the composer Otto Goldschmidt in the British Library. 
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 19 June 2014, 12:18
Gillian Thoday was very dismissive about the Cello Sonata when I showed it to her - and I must say it is no great shakes. Both PCs, IMHO, are very dull indeed, and rather amateur. Don't know anything else by him.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: thalbergmad on Thursday 19 June 2014, 20:46
To describe the piano concertos as "without event" would be generous.

I cannot imagine anyone being interested in a performance.

Thal
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Wednesday 14 August 2024, 15:52
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I wasn't sure if it was proper to start a new one or not.  I also didn't realize there was such a negative opinion of this guy, but in my ongoing quest to bring attention to forgotten composers, I was in the process of transcribing his second piano concerto from IMSLP:

https://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.2%2C_Op.24_(Street%2C_Joseph)

And I ran into another case of "rage over a lost page".  Specifically pages 34 and 35 are completely missing from the score.  Any chance anyone knows an alternate source for this one?  And if such can be found, the IMSLP score should probably be updated, of course.

Funny, because the last missing page request I made was the Theodore Thurner, and in that case, the score had too many page 35's (in place of other pages).  Something about the number 35 just can't catch a break.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 14 August 2024, 15:55
This happens in manuscript scores a lot, tangentially. Variations get repeated and skipped, too... (I'm looking at you, KSS :) :) :) adore the music, but - careless.)
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Wednesday 14 August 2024, 19:33
One of the bigger problems in searching is this guy's name.  It just so happens that the Canadian Music Centre, a major source for orchestral manuscripts, is apparently located on Joseph Street in Toronto, so nearly every search result points there.  (They do not appear to have it.)  Presumably it would be somewhere in the UK since he was English.

The music doesn't suffer all that much from the missing pages - I was already on around page 200 or so before I noticed the measure-count was off and traced it back, and found some notes on the end of page 33 that are tied to nothing.  There's a bit of a thematic jump, but after all the dramatic unexpected changes in the Thurner, I guess I've become numb to that?
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 14 August 2024, 20:10
The British Library (https://bll01.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/fulldisplay?docid=alma990046857530100000&context=L&vid=44BL_INST:BLL01) has the score, but I don't know if that helps. Maybe send an email request about it?

According to Worldcat, you might also try Boston Public Library, and Fleisher has it too (the latter unhelpful, yes, unless you're an institution unto yourself, I know... but I see they do have it, anyway -- OCLC 55651169.)
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Wednesday 14 August 2024, 21:48
Hmm, I may have a possible connection to the Boston Public Library, as my father is a state college professor near Boston (not in music, but he might still be able to get access to the library).  He's also in a wind band at the school if they need an orchestra connection (they couldn't play this of course, having no string section, but it might help).  He doesn't even need to check the book out - simply photographing the 2 missing pages would be enough.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 00:28
Well, looking at the BPL online catalog info about their copy, it can't be checked out anyway, it can be looked at in library at call no. "BROWN M.348.17 no.1", there's a request button at https://bpl.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S75C5840888. They do seem to have the 258-page full score, not a reduction. ("Boston Public Library (Arts Department) bound volume contains: Ouverture zu Shakespeare's Die beiden Veroneser / Joseph Street.")

(They estimate publication date 1870; HMB suggests 1871 - see this link (https://hofmeister.rhul.ac.uk/2008/content/monatshefte/1871_07.html#hofm_1871_07_0132_20).)

I suspect however that since "US-Bpr" means Boston Public Library, that is to say that the scan that IMSLP has is from Boston Public Library, that assuming the Archive.org original also has the same problems as the copy at IMSLP (going to go check for pp.34&35 @ archive.org then...), that it may well be that so does the score at Archive.org- but- it's worth checking; maybe the scanner at their end made some mistakes.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 00:33
Ooh, hold up. The BSB (Bavarian State Library- Bayerische Staatsbibliothek) scan has the missing pp.34, 35, and maybe the others too.

https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb11152943 (https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/view/bsb11152943)

Hope that helps!!! (has maybe 272 pp. to BPR/Archive.org/Boston's 258.)
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Thursday 15 August 2024, 01:26
Ah, yes the pages are there, thanks.  That saves me from having to send my dad on a mission for it.  I assume the 14 extra pages instead of just 2 is because it includes things like the front and back covers, and some title and blank pages at the beginning and end.  I did check the entire thing when I found the missing pages to make sure there were no others, and it was just those two.  Are you able to submit a correction to IMSLP, as someone did with the Thurner?  I don't need it for me of course, I just like to correct things when I find them in case anyone else wants to perform this at some point.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 01:34
It's a little difficult, because it's recommended to remove the marked pages at the beginning and end (including the colorcorrection page) before uploading from BSB and to crop any pages with library markings, but I can try.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Thursday 15 August 2024, 03:07
Alright, no rush or anything, just for posterity.  I have noticed that a lot of the scores I see on IMSLP do have library markings, but they're not cropped out because they stamped them right on top of the music.  I assume when a piece is old enough that it's in public domain (and often old enough that the publisher doesn't even exist anymore), that sort of thing shouldn't matter as much.  Also I don't think you have to post the entire score?  Seemed it was possible to just replace the wrong pages the last time, I imagine they can be just inserted in a case where they're missing?  Not sure how that's done.  It was cypressdome who made that fix, for what it's worth.

Anyhow, I'll post a link here when the transcription is done.  Shouldn't be as hard as the last one...
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 04:06
Cyp has fixed the Street concerto too, now.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 04:08
The (c) laws in some countries give libraries some rights- eh, it's complicated- and a reason along with politeness, why library sources should always be acknowledged when used eg in the Scanner field :)
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 13:15
Trying to track down the premiere of Street's concerto. No luck, but weirdly one mention of its publication, in "Musikalisches Wochenblatt, Volume 2" p.398, refers to the composer as "W. Street" for some reason, because yes, please, between "Street" listings and everything else make this information still harder to find...
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Thursday 15 August 2024, 15:36
It's like when I was looking up info about Theodore Thurner and Google kept insisting that I meant media mogul Ted Turner.  Or way back when I did the Carl/Caspar Brambach concerto, and kept getting results for Brahms and/or Bach.  (Didn't help nobody seemed to agree on his first name either.)

At any rate, I think I have everything I need on Mr. Street, unless I decide to try and track down his first concerto as well.  Given all the negative feedback I see about him, I'm not sure if there'll be enough interest in that, but we'll see how it goes once people get a listen of this one.  I'll admit it's hardly a groundbreaking work, but it has its moments.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 15:58
does Google not pay attention to quote marks anymore? (I mean, yes, I'll type what I mean in quotes and Google will still ask Are you sure you don't mean... thing I don't mean, but at least because of the quotes most of the results will have something to do with the thing I meant- or used to. With their increasing reliance on shoddy so-called AI, among other things, maybe notsomuch.)
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Thursday 15 August 2024, 20:53
The problem is the quotes don't mean what they used to mean.  It used to mean "find this string, verbatim".  Now it means "exclude results without this string or something like it since you probably can't spell.", which used to be the job of the "+" operator.

It's also highly biased towards popular search results, hence Brahms and Bach, who just about everyone knows, getting billed over Brambach, who is mostly unheard of outside of niche communities like this one.
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 August 2024, 22:43
Distressing...
Title: Re: Joseph Street 1841-1908
Post by: Darrel Hoffman on Sunday 25 August 2024, 00:13
My transcription of the 2nd concerto is published, for what it's worth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEESVF2GAgo