Probably an essential purchase for lovers of late-Romantic fare:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Jan-van-Gilse-1881-1944-Symphonie-Nr-4/hnum/2541241 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Jan-van-Gilse-1881-1944-Symphonie-Nr-4/hnum/2541241)
Great news :)
By conincidence...the cpo recording of the van Gilse Symphony No.3 has just popped through my letter box and I shall lok forward to listening to that too :)
Actually, it turns out that inspiration must have been running pretty low in the 4th Symphony. Frankly, it's a pretty tepid affair, giving the impression that the composer didn't really know what to do with his broadly Straussian-Regerian late-Romantic language. Certainly - barring the odd gorgeous moment - the Symphony's not in the same league as the music by some other composers of the same period that cpo have been championing, e.g. Reznicek or Weingartner. However, I might have been having a bad day, so I'll certainly be listening again...
I received my copy today. My first impression is quite different. The first two movements gave me a pleasant listen, the slow movement is nothing less than moving and gorgeous, but the final movement is rather vague. As a whole Van Gilse's 4th certainly didn't disappoint me, on the contrary, but is definitely not to the same level as his 3rd. So far that is still my favourite Dutch symphony.
To remind me exactly what can be done with this sort of musical language, I listened to Marx's Herbstsymphonie. Now that is absolutely gorgeous all the way through - like the richest cake you can imagine with whipped cream and cherries on top. However, the comparison's a bit unfair...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 26 July 2012, 23:37
..... Marx's Herbstsymphonie. Now that is absolutely gorgeous all the way through - like the richest cake you can imagine with whipped cream and cherries on top. ...
Hallelujah!!!!When will this Gorgeous symphony be commercially recorded!!!!!!!
I'm afraid that if even Peter thinks van Gilse's Fourth isn't up to the level of his Third, then I'm not going to dip my toe in the water as I too found the latter a very tepid listen. Just as well that we don't all have the same taste and, for the record, I find Marx's Herbsymfonie a very indigestible cake!.
Quote from: FBerwald on Friday 27 July 2012, 16:25
Marx's Herbstsymphonie. When will this Gorgeous symphony be commercially recorded!!!!!!!
It already has been. It's available as a commercial download here:
http://www.micmacmusic.com/product_info.php?products_id=659&osCsid=d461f7ecbf12ed9b2998645690c5245a (http://www.micmacmusic.com/product_info.php?products_id=659&osCsid=d461f7ecbf12ed9b2998645690c5245a)
Word has it that Ari Rasilainen is keen to record it. The label would be cpo.
Anyway, apologies! Back to van Gilse's 4th...
To follow on from Alan's tip, the Marx Herbst Symphonie is also available to download in a performance conducted by the indefatigable Leon Botstein, either through amazon download or itunes.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marx-Eine-Herbstsymphonie/dp/B003XNCZFY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343417133&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marx-Eine-Herbstsymphonie/dp/B003XNCZFY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343417133&sr=8-1)
Has anyone compared these performances (apologies for keeping this thread 'off tack'!!)?
The odd thing about Botstein's performance is that it's only about 59 minutes long, so either he's much faster than Swierczewski (who takes 73 mins) or he makes some cuts. No idea which, though!
...Follow up: from the brief audio clips available, I'd say Botstein is much quicker!
I think you do need to get a move on in most late Romantic music - it's usually more effective the less indulgent the interpretation. As Mark says, the Herbstsymphonie can be a bit indigestible on one's first encounter, but it is a remarkable score and IMHO repays study. I can't enter into the discussion on the van Gilse symphonies, as I don't know any of them.
I just have the feeling that van Gilse was at his best exploiting an idiom that wasn't really his own; the earlier music has a wonderful Straussian exuberance which the later music seems to lack.
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 27 July 2012, 20:47
I think you do need to get a move on in most late Romantic music - it's usually more effective the less indulgent the interpretation.
That's an insightful comment, Gareth.
But why do I find Celibidache in Bruckner so moving? He takes half as long again as most conductors!
Anyway, apologies again and back to van Gilse!
I wouldn't class Bruckner's music as "late Romantic" really. There's a very classical feeling of structure and, indeed, restraint about his monumental edifices - they are almost Vitruvian in their clarity. And, of course, Celibidache was an exceptional conductor.
No, quite. I was just saying that slower performances are sometimes oddly thrilling. I would find it hard to accept Botstein's tempi in the Marx, for example. But then I got to know the piece from Swierczewski's performance.
Actually, this is a problem in general with unsung music when there is no performing tradition and when there is maybe only a single recorded performance available. My good friend, the late Dr Alan Krueck always had a soft spot for the old Desser performance of Draeseke's Tragica - which is about six minutes longer than either Weigle (cpo) or Hanson (MDG), whereas I find it somewhat perverse in the way tempi are pulled about.
Anyway, I doubt whether a different type of performance could rescue van Gilse's 4th. (Apologies, Peter!)
Disappointingly mixed reactions to the van Gilse 4th. I shall just have to wait to find out for myself ;D
To tell the truth....I cannot stop playing the van Gilse 3rd. I have absolutely fallen in love with the music and the idiom ;D :)
After a few times listening I'm still absolutely positive about the 4th. The opening and especially last movements are not the strongest parts of the symphony. They show strong fluctuations of moods. Beautiful melodies are alternated by unexpected passages. The core of the symphony is the slow 3rd movement, which is really gorgeous to my ears. Thus Van Gilse's last symphony features diverse elements, but that doesn't make this work uninteresting. According to the booklet notes this symphony, premiered in November 1915, has become one of his most performed works.
But the CD offers more. His Funeral Music on the Death of Uilenspiegel (I wonder how not Dutch speaking members would pronounce this word ::)) dating from 1941, develops from easygoing to Mahlerian proportions.
Totally different is the Concert Overture in C minor (1900). A lovely piece, but in a quite conservative idiom, almost Mendelssohnian. Never mind, it's beautiful music.
Colin, I'm very pleased that you are so enthusiastic about Van Gilse's 3rd.
QuoteHas anyone compared these performances (apologies for keeping this thread 'off tack'!!)?
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 27 July 2012, 20:34
The odd thing about Botstein's performance is that it's only about 59 minutes long, so either he's much faster than Swierczewski (who takes 73 mins) or he makes some cuts. No idea which, though!
...Follow up: from the brief audio clips available, I'd say Botstein is much quicker!
Some years ago I had some e-mail corresondance with Berkant Haydin, the head of the Joseph Marx Society. He said that Botstein both shortened it and played it way to fast. For those who speak German:
Quote from: Berkant Haydin
Botsteins Version ist die gekürzte Fassung (um ca. 5 Min.; die
Kürzungsvorschläge des Komponisten stehen in der Partitur) und außerdem
extrem rasch gespielt, meines Erachtens viiiiiel zu schnell. Es gibt nur
einige wenige Stellen, wo Botsteins Version die Grazer Aufnahme
musikalisch übertrifft.
[...]
Liebe Grüße
Berkant Haydin
Please excuse that this is a further off-topic post, I found this thread via googling for van gilse's 4th and was quite happy that some more people were aware of the difference between the recordings. As Berkant Haydin said that the Botstein version wasn't so good I didn't buy it but I'm quite happy with the Graz recording.
The Graz recording is indeed superb.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 11 March 2013, 22:24
The Graz recording is indeed superb.
Oh no - another 'must buy'! My 'wants' list is bursting at the seams - hopeless, unless I win the lottery. :'(
I think I'll have to be satisfied with the ex-radio performance by NetherlandsSO/Porcelijn which was uploaded to UC. How do they compare?
We were referring to Marx's Herbstsymphonie - many apologies for going off-topic.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 28 July 2012, 23:05
Actually, this is a problem in general with unsung music when there is no performing tradition and when there is maybe only a single recorded performance available.
So true ...