Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Thursday 13 December 2012, 07:55

Title: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 13 December 2012, 07:55
Straight onto my list goes this planned January release from cpo:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Louis-Theodore-Gouvy-1819-1898-Symphonien-Vol-4/hnum/4101963 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Louis-Theodore-Gouvy-1819-1898-Symphonien-Vol-4/hnum/4101963)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 13 December 2012, 08:14
How timely. This morning I've been emailed a discount voucher by jpc because I haven't been ordering enough from them!
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 13 December 2012, 14:07
Nice- one work (the Breve) I now have the score of (@IMSLP), one work (the D minor) I've heard but would like to hear another recording of (and would like to have the score - and movement headings - of/for...), and a third.  Thanks, cpo! :)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 13 December 2012, 15:53
Not to put a damper on things... but I am a bit confused. Wiki mentions that Gouvy wrote 9 Symphonies. Here is the list I found online:

Symphony No. 1 in E♭ major, Op. 9
Symphony No. 2 in F major, Op. 12
Symphony No. 3 in C major, Op. 20
Symphony No. 4 in D minor, Op. 25
Symphony No. 5 in B♭ major, Op. 30
Symphony No. 6 [Symphonie brève] in G major, Op. 58
Symphony No. 7 in G minor, Op. 8 [recorded by CPO as No. 6]

In addition wiki mentions
    "a Symphony in B minor"
and imslp mentions
    "Op.34 - Symphony?"

Are these two the same? and Finally.. How many symphonies did Gouvy write - 8 or 9?

Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 13 December 2012, 16:12
Grove says:

Orch: 7 syms., 1846–92; Sinfonietta (c1886); Symphonische Paraphrasen (c1898); 2 concert ovs. (c1858); Hymne et marche triomphale
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 13 December 2012, 17:25
I may have written Op.34 etc. in there, and I think I remember why- I seem to recall mention of a symphony Op.34 by Gouvy (performed, probably, rather than published) in a contemporary journal. Should of course have noted the source, though. (RISM does not seem to help here- three works by Gouvy, none of them symphonies, unless they have them under a misspelling of his surname and forgot to rationalize, which would be rare for RISM as it is common for other sources.)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 25 January 2013, 17:52
Just try these wonderful-sounding excerpts:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Louis-Theodore-Gouvy-1819-1898-Symphonien-Vol-4/hnum/4101963 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Louis-Theodore-Gouvy-1819-1898-Symphonien-Vol-4/hnum/4101963)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 25 January 2013, 20:04
jpc emailed yesterday to say that my copy is on its way.  :)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 25 January 2013, 20:24
Funny - I had the same message...
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Richard Moss on Monday 28 January 2013, 12:56
Following Alan's alert, in case any members are interested, I've just noticed that JPC are currently offering the first two (of the 4) volumes of Gouvy symphonies at 7.99 Euros each (plus P&P, I assume).

Cheers

Richard
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 January 2013, 15:35
No harm I guess in just asking- does anyone know the movement headings of that quite good D minor symphony? When someone has the CD, unless cpo really botches the job, I'm guessing the answer will be one does now, but perhaps someone does already...? :) Thanks!
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: JimL on Monday 28 January 2013, 17:52
I second Eric's question!
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 February 2013, 18:57
Symphony No.4 in D minor, Op.25:
1. Allegro
2. Scherzo: Allegro vivace
3. Intermezzo: Larghetto
4. Finale: Allegro con brio

...is a fine work, full of melody as with all Gouvy's music. To my ears it looks forward to Raff in the bustle of its faster movements, its easy tunefulness, the lovely, clear orchestration and its relative (27 mins +) brevity. Of course, Gouvy 4 was written in 1856, so it predates Raff's symphonies, but I do think there is a certain similarity and, after all, the two men were virtually exact contemporaries. What Gouvy lacks is Raff's absorption of certain colouristic and harmonic tendencies which the latter took from the New German school; then there's the question of Raff's genius...
The CD reveals some very fine playing on the part of the Deutsche Radio Philharmonie Saarbrücken Kaiserslautern and some very incisive conducting from Jacques Mercier. They'd do Raff superbly... 
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: JimL on Friday 01 February 2013, 20:33
Finally!  Although now there's a question of whether or not my home computer picked up a virus or whether the internet was just temporarily down in my area.  I can only go online at work today.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 February 2013, 20:35
Quote from: JimL on Friday 01 February 2013, 20:33
Finally! 

The CD only arrived today!
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 01 February 2013, 21:53
My copy arrived yesterday and I settled down to listen to it immediately. Much as I have enjoyed all of Gouvy's music which I've heard, for the first time I experienced a distinct sense of ennui. Not that the three symphonies on the disc don't share all the admirable characteristics which Alan outlines, they do. In fact, that's rather the point: they are virtually indistinguishable, although they were written across a span of over 20 years. I'm looking a gift horse (indeed, three gift horses) in the mouth, I know, but I do think that this CD illustrates very well Gouvy's limitations as a composer as effectively as it does his strengths. These three symphonies are individually delightful, beautifully orchestrated, tightly constructed and melodically memorable but, despite the fact that two of them aren't in the conventional four movements, Gouvy's style didn't develop noticeably in any essential area. Listen to the CD in one sitting and the symphonies quite loose their individuality. Best to enjoy their charms one at a time.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 February 2013, 22:31
Actually, Mark, I do think that the Fantaisie Symphonique sounds later than the 4th Symphony - some of the brass writing in particular is rather heavier, I thought.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 01 February 2013, 22:34
Possibly, I'd have to listen again to check that, but my overriding impression is that he found his style in the 1850s and pretty much stuck with it.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 01 February 2013, 23:17
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Saturday 02 February 2013, 07:57
Would anyone who received the CD kindly post the track listings. Its frustrating listening to the samples on CPO website without knowing what is what...
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 02 February 2013, 08:03
Here you are -- track listings (http://magazin.klassik.com/records/teaser.cfm?RECID=24112) (found by google searching gouvy intermezzo larghetto) though I sort of suspect "Rodo" towards the end is a typo. (For Rodeo, I suppose!)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Saturday 02 February 2013, 08:38
Is the Fantaisie Symphonique just 1:38 sec? must be a typo.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 02 February 2013, 08:59
The Fantasie's other recording, on Sterling, is tripartite, Grave (13:25) - Adagio (5:56) - Alla breve (6:10), so yes, I'm guessing that's a typo. Hopefully the rest is more or less accurate though now I begin to have my doubts and should have earlier. Sorry about that...
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 02 February 2013, 10:38
The FS is 21:45.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 02 February 2013, 14:02
Tracks 1-4: Symphony No.4 (27:20)
Tracks 5-11: Symphonie brève (14:05)
Tracks 12-14: Fantaisie Symphonique (21:45)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: JimL on Saturday 02 February 2013, 23:01
I noted that the performing forces are the same as those in the download of the 4th in our archives.  Do we have to remove that entry, or do you think that this is a studio performance, separate from the live concert from which our download was drawn?
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 03 February 2013, 00:52
I'm guessing a somewhat different recording, in fact I think the one we have lacks a first movement repeat and I'm guessing the one  on cpo has it judging from the serious difference in total timings. By 10:20 in (is that right?) the first movement is ending on cpo I gather and on the other recording, we're well into the second movement (which ends at 12:23 in- the second movement, that is- instead of 15:18 for the two first movements on cpo?). Will compare the other timings though...

(Really striking first movement. Onslow's D minor symphony's first movement gives me a somewhat similar feeling of "I liked his music but hadn't heard something quite like this from him before", I think.)
Total length- 24:19 including pauses, not including applause (3 minutes' difference)
first movement of uploaded recording - 7:32.
scherzo - 4:51 or so.
slow movement starts at 12:34, ends at 18:04 (5:30)
finale - ca.6:12 in length (then 27 seconds applause.) Very different timings from at least what my link claims are @ the cpo recording - someone who actually has the cpo recording can confirm (or not...)
-Eric
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 03 February 2013, 11:30
They are different performances, I think, and so as far as I'm concerned the upload can stay.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Sunday 03 February 2013, 19:33
I believe this list solves the mystery of the Gouvy Symphonies - 7 or 9... etc.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2807ti.jpg)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 03 February 2013, 20:59
That's very useful, thanks. Would you be able to upload the rest of Gouvy's catalogue, or point us to it?
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Peter1953 on Sunday 03 February 2013, 21:58
Vol.4 gave me (just like the other 3) a pleasant listening hour. In his slow movements Gouvy is at his best. But like so many other less known composers, after listening I cannot remember any tune. I know, it's me. I wonder how his chamber music is like. Perhaps more surprising?
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 03 February 2013, 22:00
several of his chamber works have been recorded, and two of them (the first string quartet and the Petite suite gauloise) can be heard @ IMSLP; don't know if that helps.

Based on my experience anyway (based on how I experience and don't experience music...) I sometimes wonder if it really might have been true that earlier audiences, for all their foibles and negatives, mightn't really have had longer attention spans speaking very generally... :)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Peter1953 on Sunday 03 February 2013, 22:10
Thanks, Eric. I think the announced Piano Trios 2, 3 & 4 are worthwhile.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 03 February 2013, 22:19
Reports seem to conflict as to whether they are announced or already available but in any case I agree. I've heard the Orfeo recording on the radio I think, or part of it at least, and look forward to hearing trio 4 and a new recording of trios 2 and 3 (whether on the radio or, well, one these days I'll get an iTunes- or Amazon-download account, maybe sooner. :) )
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Monday 04 February 2013, 05:24
Here are the rest of what I could find.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/281c1oo.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2s9w4uf.jpg)


Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Monday 04 February 2013, 05:26
(http://i48.tinypic.com/28k1yds.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2hebleb.jpg)

I found these on the Facebook page of the Institut Théodore Gouvy
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 04 February 2013, 08:08
Thanks so much. Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 February 2013, 17:43
For once I'm parting company from Mark over the music on this CD: as I hinted before, to my ears the Fantaisie Symphonique clearly represents a development over the composer's earlier style. The music is more heavily scored (especially for brass) and the range of expression seems to me considerably wider. Not that this is anything more than music of its time (1879), but I do think there is some evidence of progression in Gouvy's music (all within a pretty conservative context, of course). 
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 February 2013, 17:57
Well, if it weren't, it would be outside the ambit of this forum :)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 February 2013, 19:09
I meant that Gouvy's music shows progression within a basically conservative compositional style; he was never a progressive as such...
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 February 2013, 20:07
Understood -
btw all those new editions from the Gouvy Institute are promising; I hope they have reason to believe that they can secure performances and recordings for these works (if perhaps with some written / word of mouth help.) I am getting to like this music. (I recall Berlioz was one of his fans too, so I suppose I'm in good company.)
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: JimL on Monday 04 February 2013, 21:06
I'm rather disappointed that there don't seem to be any concertante works in his oeuvre.  :(
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 04 February 2013, 21:34
Why?
Title: Re: Gouvy Symphonies vol.4 from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 February 2013, 23:29
There are at least two, I think?
*Fantasie Pastorale for violin and orchestra
*Tragic March for organ and orchestra