Just listened again to Von Flotow's PC 2 (1831), with its delicate, lovely adagio. It's rather curious that this concerto has four movements. I suppose there are not so many (unsung) solo concertos consisting of four movements, regardless of which solo instrument. Which (early) romantic composer preceded Von Flotow?
Gade's 5th Symphony for piano + orchestra. Underrated work...
no, that's not a concerto- it's a concertante work (there is a difference and not just a distinction)- and like all Gade's (surviving?) symphonies dates from 1842 or later I think. Likewise Litolff's surviving concerti symphoniques(?) which are other examples that come to mind - the earliest surviving one, I think, dates from the early 1840s... So yes, 1831 seems pretty early for a post-Baroque concerto with four distinct movements, unless I'm mistaken. (Classical-period concertos and sinfonia- concertante works in 1 or 2 movements were more common (the August Klengel first piano concerto (of at least 2) I was just looking at again, that one was published no later than 1817, for instance and has two movements, each with a brief slow introduction), and the one-movement concerto form used I think by Spohr and rather a few others occasionally (also the three-movements telescoped into one though doing both at once in a work is something not many composers ... never mind, jumping off train ;) ) - that one finds more often.
It isn't called a concerto and it doesn't have four movements, but Raff's five-movement Suite for Piano & Orchestra in both scale and character is a concerto in all but name. The parallel Suite for Violin and Orchestra is most definitely a suite, however.
Hi. Your friendly neighbourhood Classical Era nut here, spying on your Romantic types as usual. I just couldn't resist addressing the discussion about the rarity of 4-movement sinfonia concertante works in the Classical period. It's not just that there were a number of them, it's that some of them stand out for their solo instruments and/or combinations of such.
Take, for example, Albrechtsberger's Concerto for Jew's Harp and Mandora in F Major. He wrote seven sinfonia concertante for this odd pairing with orchestra, three of which survive today, and the one in F Major has four movements. All were written in 1764, 1765 (possibly all in this year), or 1766. He also wrote a Concerto for Piccolo and Guitar in D Major, in four movements.
Quote from: Peter1953 on Thursday 14 February 2013, 22:01
Just listened again to Von Flotow's PC 2 (1831), with its delicate, lovely adagio. It's rather curious that this concerto has four movements. I suppose there are not so many (unsung) solo concertos consisting of four movements, regardless of which solo instrument. Which (early) romantic composer preceded Von Flotow?
Sterndale-Bennet intended his 1st PC to have 4 movements, but the publisher nixed the idea, so the finale of the concerto is actually a scherzo. The von Flotow PC 2 may be the first Romantic period concerto to actually be in a 4 movement format, predating those of Litolff, but, of course, it went unperformed and unpublished until its recent discovery.
Josh- I'm not sure I meant to say that, or if I did, I was mistaken :) (I know I'm not a Romantic-music-only nut, judging certainly from my collection, though my knowledge can always use much improvement...)
Jeno Hubay's 3rd Violin Concerto.. Excellent piece.
Yes, a fine concerto. His 4th has also 4 movements. There are more examples. How about Hans Huber's PCs 1 & 3? Amy Beach...
Vieuxtemps' Violin Concerto No.4.
Ok, there's a relatively rare example of a 4-movement concerto (but not symphony, with that genre's different rules and permissions) composed between 1831 and 1881 there (Romantic-era ones composed/published between 1810 and 1830- not sure, between 1831 and 1880- a handful? - between 1881 and 1918- I'm guessing and also seem to recall, rather more, of course :) )
All three (although the second is lost) of Hans Huber's piano concertos are in four movements. The third one especially is a very effective piece and one of my favorites, mainly on account of its beautifully lush opening movement.
Well, Gounod's Concerto for Piano-pédalier is in 4 movements...
Huber actually wrote 4 piano concertos.
Of course, we're leaving out Scharwenka's 4th PC and Sauer's 1st, because by the time they were composed 4 movement concertos had already become somewhat old-hat. Oh, and I believe the Dobrowen PC in C-sharp minor is also in 4 movements. I'm still trying to get information on the tempo of the finale of that work. >:(
I don't think the Scharwenka No. 4 was conceived as a 'genuine' four-movement work. The Hyperion tracks are a bit deceptive, in that regard. Neither the complete nor the reduced score at IMSLP give a separate movement number to the Allegro con fuoco, and the 3rd/'4th' movement is played attacca, anyway.
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 19 February 2013, 21:36
Huber actually wrote 4 piano concertos.
I stand corrected. The fourth appears to have been a four-movement work, too.
Quote from: Ilja on Thursday 21 February 2013, 15:57
I don't think the Scharwenka No. 4 was conceived as a 'genuine' four-movement work. The Hyperion tracks are a bit deceptive, in that regard. Neither the complete nor the reduced score at IMSLP give a separate movement number to the Allegro con fuoco, and the 3rd/'4th' movement is played attacca, anyway.
Structurally, however a strong argument can be made that it is indeed a 4 movement work. The
Lento, mesto is a tonally and thematically discrete section in C-sharp minor/D-flat Major that is too substantial (and formally self-contained) to be an introductory passage (à la Beethoven's
Waldstein Sonata), and the transition to the finale proper is very much a cross between Beethoven's
Emperor (semitone drop to the dominant) and Schumann's (reminiscence of the first movement) concertos.
The Komitas Violin Concerto is in 4. If he counts as romantic......
J
Both of Ernö Dohnanyi's Violin Concertos have four movements. Let's head off criticism of their relative status of being unsung or not. Though the composer hardly counts as unsung (though his major works are still woefully underexposed), his Violin Concertos are decidedly unsung despite a couple of extant recordings. I do believe they could be popular if given frequent airings, but with things the way they are today it's nearly impossible for any new work to receive the kind of exposure necessary to become unsung or a repertory work.
Good nominations. Thanks! Love VC1 in particular, reminiscences of Salomé and all...
I'm still curious what the earliest "post-classical" one might have been, though the opening posts in the thread may have tentatively settled that question (barring new information, etc., etc. ...)
I will put in a word for the rather remarkable Violin Concerto by August Klughardt (composed 1895). The extra movement is a very short quasi recitativo linking the first movement with the slow movement. At around three minutes, it could be considered a bridging passage rather than a movement, but it is quite dramatic, and plays an important part in the structure of the whole work. The first movement is as long as the last two combined, and introduces a "Fate motif" which recurs throughout the work. Just as it seems the movement is over, there is a jarring chord and this short andante arrives, dominated by the Fate motif, which then plays an important role in the last two movements.
Very interesting piece - stylistically, I would say somewhere between Raff and Weingartner.
Yes, a very fine piece indeed, Gauk. One of Klughardt's most imaginative and satisfying compositions.
No longer bound to the early-romantic limit, I would suggest Moszkowsky PC , Stenhammar PC 1, Dubois PC 2.
Violin Concertos: Lalo Concerto Russe, Arensky Concerto, Godard Concerto Romantique.
Both the Piano Concertos of Godard are in 4 movements. Astonishingly beautiful works.... I guess since Dutton has beaten them to it Hyperion will no longer record them.. I wouldn't have minded a duplicate of this one!
They don't seem to mind a -little- duplication (Dubois upcoming CD, Widor, and also Mendelssohn, etc.)
Quote from: alberto on Tuesday 09 April 2013, 10:04
I would suggest Moszkowsky PC , Stenhammar PC 1, Dubois PC 2.
The Moszkowski Op.6 is also 4 movements.
Thal
Quote from: alberto on Tuesday 09 April 2013, 10:04
No longer bound to the early-romantic limit, I would suggest Moszkowsky PC , Stenhammar PC 1, Dubois PC 2.
Violin Concertos: Lalo Concerto Russe, Arensky Concerto, Godard Concerto Romantique.
Stenhammar's PC 2 is also in 4 movements. I tend to think of the Arensky as one movement in 4 sections. It is basically a single sonata/concerto structure with an Andante and Waltz sandwiched between the exposition/development and the reprise.
There is also the 1907 Piano Concerto by Ysaÿe. I have found two performances of this lush romantic work on Youtube, one of which is incomplete and extremely poor quality, but the other is listenable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHXRCuHtyQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHXRCuHtyQ)
Maybe something Hyperion should consider?
Why not drop a line to Mike Spring and suggest it?