Are there tempo indications for the 3rd movement anywhere?
Probably. Perhaps you'd oblige us and do some research, Jim?
Suggest you enquire of the publishers: PWM (Poland) - http://www.pwm.com.pl (http://www.pwm.com.pl) I have found them helpful in the past, if you ask nicely!!!
Thanks! I've had some good luck with that recently... :)
thanks so much for the upload. Lovely stuff.
Jerry
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 21 March 2013, 15:07
Suggest you enquire of the publishers: PWM (Poland) - http://www.pwm.com.pl (http://www.pwm.com.pl) I have found them helpful in the past, if you ask nicely!!!
I shall endeavor to make my inquiry some time this weekend. But if they answer me in Polish, I'm'a'
keeeeeeeel yew! ;D
I doubt whether the tempo indication will be in Polish, Jim! ;)
BTW this is so much more enjoyable than Rubinstein 4 of the same name. And it appears definitely to date from 1860:
http://www.pwm.com.pl/Grande_symphonie_dramatique__Materia%B3y_orkiestrowe__prod__gp3__id127095.html (http://www.pwm.com.pl/Grande_symphonie_dramatique__Materia%B3y_orkiestrowe__prod__gp3__id127095.html)
Yes, another very fine work by a totally UC and, I agree, a more imposing symphony than the Rubinstein. Thank you for the upload. :)
Most certainly an impressive symphony and I'm very grateful to Mark for the upload. Again a hidden Polish gem. But no, by no means better than Rubinstein's Fourth. And that's my personal opinion, nothing more.
Not better that Rubinstein 4, Peter; just more enjoyable.
Can I make an appeal, with all due respect to everyone, for a moritorium on mention of Rubinstein's Fourth? I'm thoroughly bored with it.
I've listened to this symphony a few times. Absolutely enjoyable, but I wonder why it is called 'Dramatic'. I cannot recognize a dramatic moment at all. It is full of life and breaths a positive mood. I think Johann Strauss Junior would have loved it and called it promptly the Waltzer Symphony.
Ah oops, 'moratorium' actually. And are you, Mark, "thoroughly bored" by Rubinstein 4 or by the frequent mention of it? Absolutely no need to answer that question!
But I do agree with you. It has almost got to the stage where fellow scribblers, rather than being unable to see the wood for the trees, cannot think of a symphony without thinking Rubinstein. It has somehow prejudiced me so much against Rubinstein 4 that I doubt if I will ever listen to it again - and whether or not that is my loss is something I shall never discover!
???
But Peter, what do you think of the Brzowski, the subject of this thread?
I was away when we did spelling at school, Peter! I'm bored with the constant mention of of Rubinstein 4 and you've just made me mention it again. Yes, back to Brzowski...
I confess, Peter, I haven't listened to it yet!
Well, guys, I got my answer back:
"Dear Sir,
The editors of Polish Music Edition (PWM), asked me to answer your questions about Józef Brzowski's Symphony. I'm a composer and musicologist, specializing in a field of symphony music of 19th century, and I'm researching Polish symphonies from that period. Brzowski's symphony was composed probably beetween 1840 and 1850. It's E major, though it begins in E minor. As most Brzowski's compositions it does not have opus number. In 3rd movement it's beginning tempo is not specified, but because it's a ,,Mazur" it must be performed in Allegro or Allegro vivace tempo. I noticed that on YouTube it's incorrectly given the name of ,,Mazurka", which is used for artistic stylisations for piano. ,,Mazur" is lively folk-dance from center Poland. ,,Krakowiak" which is middle section of this movement has tempo noted as Allegretto ma non troppo. If you are interested in Polish music from that period, than I will gladly answer your questions on that topic.
Yours sincerely,
Maciej Negrey"
What a helpful reply, thanks, Jim. I'm rather surprised that Mr Negrey puts the date of composition as being between 1840 and 1850. Not that I'm second-guessing him, but it does make the work much more advanced for its time and makes Brzowski's achievement all the more impressive.
I second Mark's reaction concerning the date...
From my side, appreciation for the upload of this lovely work. A agree that Brzowski sounds very advanced for the period. Until recently I have not been able to download from UC due to bandwidth limitations, which I have now been able to rectify, and a whole new world has opened up. Amazon affiliates' shipping to Africa has apparently increased from $6.99 to $14.29, which has suddenly put Amazon out of reach, so UC has become a lifeline.
A Google search for an picture of Brzowski has not given any results - I suppose he was BP (before photographs)?
No. There are photographs of Chopin. They may not have had any cameras or photographers in Russian-occupied Poland, however.
With apologies for digression, see History of photography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography) (according to Wikipedia); consider Daguerreotypes (some of the early photographs made in the late 1830s...) (also consider that portraits existed even before that, and people did sit for them.)
Also with apologies for digression. I did a quick Google search without luck. Could someone translate the abbreviated date of the performance?
09.11.2005
Is that September 11 or November 9?
Sorry, Dave, I'm obviously being dense here - where did you get '09.11.2005' from?
could have been 23.01.2011 too? See here yes? (http://www.studianagran.com.pl/nagrania/lutoslawski/Koncerty-w-2011-119.html) (Maybe?...)
...then 09.11.2005 would be 9th November 2005, no?
well- depends on where the 2005 date came from, but I'm guessing yes, for my own part.
here in Poland in the data notation we use the scheme: dd/mm/yy
I listened to this symphony a few more times. The opening bars of the 1st and 4th movement are somewhat 'dramatic', however, the music sounds more like a symphonic waltz to me. But what a wonderful symphony altogether. A constant flow of catching and memorable tunes. Utterly delightful. For me it's surely a trouvaille. This unknown work absolutely deserves a commercial CD.
Perhaps giving a work a subtitle like "dramatic" is a hostage to fortune, in that it may not live up to expectation. But then again, what sounded "dramatic" in 1860 was rather different to our idea of "dramatic" music in 2013.
True, but would it not be worse if it were called the "reasonably unmoving" Symphony??
I don't think I would want to listen to it then.
Thal
*laughs* - well, it could be called the Pathetic Symphony ...
Pathetic- now there's a word whose meaning changes with language and time from 1893 to 2013, from passionate, to worthy of contempt!