News in an e-mail today from Professor Manfred Decker at the Tiroler Landesmuseum Ferdinandeum in Innsbruck suggests that a manuscript discovered in the extensive Rufinatscha-Nachlass there may well be the missing 3rd Symphony in F major. More news about this exciting development as soon as I have it...
Terrif! Do please keep us posted.
Wow... this is very spectacular news. Let's all cross our fingers...
We can expect more news tomorrow from Prof. Decker's research assistant, Ernst Bauernfänger, who has apparently been looking into Rufinatscha's manuscripts.
No! This is effin' incredible! Any news as to whether it is a two-piano reduction or the full orchestral score? This raises hope that the full score of the C Minor Symphony might still be somewhere in that mass of manuscripts.
From what I understand, the hunt is on for the 4th Symphony too. I'm hoping for some more news later today (Austria is one hour ahead of the UK, so I assume work will already have started).
Gosh, the 4th. as well? Does this mean that they are already certain that they have the 3rd.? My, these Ferdinandeum people move quickly - all this in one day? You must hardly be able to drag yourself away from your Inbox. Make sure to keep us posted.
Well, the hunt's on for the 4th simply because they may have found the 3rd, I suppose. And indeed, I am crouching by my inbox waiting for news...
The apparently lost 3rd Symphony has been found. This has been confirmed by Herr Bauernfänger in an e-mail that arrived in my in box precisely fourteen minutes ago! And what's more, it is a full-scale orchestral score.
Evidently it was tucked away among other papers, including correspondence, concert programmes, etc. from the early 1840s. The manuscript, though, is not in good condition, so a lot of work will have to be done before a performing edition becomes available. Let's hope that Thomas Irrenmann, who prepared the scores of the other symphonies, doesn't take a year to complete the job!
The work itself is in the usual four movements, as follows:
1. Andante non troppo - Allegro molto appassionato
2. Adagio misterioso
3. Scherzo: Allegro molto giocoso
4. Allegro energico - Adagio morendo
...from which it appears that the work has a slow, quiet ending, presumably dying away into nothingness.
For every fan of Rufinatscha this is very, very wonderful news. Rufinatscha is, and I say it without hesitation, to me the most exciting discovery of all unsung composers (thanks, Alan!). Although very different (Rufinatscha was certainly not an imitator, but developed his own style), I put him on the same high level as Raff and Rubinstein. His magnificent music on CD is only available in a Tirolian museum, nowhere else. So how many admirers could he have? Ever heard Rufinatscha broadcasted? Maybe in Austria only.
Yesterday evening I listened again to his Sonata for four-handed piano in D minor. A real gem of the Romantic piano literature. So serene, so inventive.
Alan's news is for me an immediate reason to drink a good glass of burgundy while listening to the magical 6th Symphony. And I'm awaiting patiently the release of his Third.
What a very fine composer Rufinatscha is.
Indeed he was. And well-organised too. Apparently, according to Herr Bauernfänger, the manuscript was in a dusty box on which he could just make out the words, clearly written in the composer's hand: Verschollen, 1. April.... (he couldn't make out the date)
Have modified the Rufinatscha Wikipedia-en article accordingly. Great news!
Eric
....which just shows how carefully Wikipedia contributors should read their sources...
...The Wikipedia page now reads as it should.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 April 2010, 17:20
Indeed he was. And well-organised too. Apparently, according to Herr Bauernfänger, the manuscript was in a dusty box on which he could just make out the words, clearly written in the composer's hand: Verschollen, 1. April.... (he couldn't make out the date)
That is *really* well-organized.. ;D
Sometimes - when you are too deep into a topic - you read what you want to hear. By the way, anyone knows ever came across this recording (I am badly looking for it):
(http://inkpot.com/classical/covers/mahvncon.jpg)
http://inkpot.com/classical/mahvncon.html (http://inkpot.com/classical/mahvncon.html)
Best,
Tobias
This recording, although flagged up in DG's 2008 catalogue, was never issued - a bit like Abbado's Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in Lucerne. Apparently Vengerov felt that his performances weren't up to the ridiculous demands made upon the soloist by both Mahler and Schmidt and he and Boulez came to blows, thus scuppering the whole project. So all we have is a lovely CD booklet cover and tears for what might have been...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 April 2010, 21:21
This recording, although flagged up in DG's 2008 catalogue, was never issued - a bit like Abbado's Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in Lucerne. Apparently Vengerov felt that his performances weren't up to the ridiculous demands made upon the soloist by both Mahler and Schmidt and he and Boulez came to blows, thus scuppering the whole project. So all we have is a lovely CD booklet cover and tears for what might have been...
...and that's why the infamous Mahler Violin Concerto is never played or recorded... :-X
Infamous indeed. The opposite of famous, in fact...
I'd say I stand corrected, but
1) I'm just confused now.
2) I see that the link to the old Raff forums was not removed by (presumably) Mr. Howe... (I was considering removing it). Does that mean this link still goes somewhere? (Ok, I should really test it and find out myself if it's a dead link...)
All best in superconfusion :)
Eric
Hmm. The 3rd Symphony in F Major dies away quietly. Wonder who else you could say this of? ;)
Quote from: JimL on Friday 02 April 2010, 00:02
Hmm. The 3rd Symphony in F Major dies away quietly. Wonder who else you could say this of? ;)
Mahler's 3rd in the relative major! ;D
The last movement of Mahler 3 ends in the parallel major (that is, D), not the relative, and I'm pretty sure it ends loudly, but I'm not positive. (And the first movement does end in F, but also loudly...) Can't think offhand of other symphonies in F that end with a morendo effect, besides Brahms 3 :) Does Atterberg 2, say?
Nice one, Eric! Brahms indeed. And if the Rufinatscha 3rd has a cyclic reference to the first movement at the end of the finale (and don't think it out of the question - he does precisely that at the end of the 6th) then another influence on Brahms will be revealed.
Come to think of it, Raff's Lenore ends much the same way, albeit not cyclically. Although I doubt he heard Rufinatscha's 3rd. Or did he?
No, I think that we can safely say that Raff had never heard Rufinatscha's Third, or at least this version of it...
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 02 April 2010, 03:05
The last movement of Mahler 3 ends in the parallel major (that is, D), not the relative, and I'm pretty sure it ends loudly, but I'm not positive.
I have the *Oxford Dictionary of Music* in front of me and I can not find a definition for "parallel major." If you are taking about the term used to indicate the connection between a major and minor key having the same key signature, then the proper word is "relative major." For example, C-major is the relative major of A-minor, and A-minor is the relative minor of C-major.
Eric: the old forum doesn't exist any more: I didn't author the Wikipedia page, but have, at your prompting, now removed the link to it.
Hope superconfusion has been replaced by superunderstanding.
I should imagine that the term "parallel major" really means "tonic major". Thus C minor, with its 3 flats, is the tonic major of C major, with no flats. I wouldn't care to drive a C minor car. ;D
I think I never should have remarked on the key, not understanding the English music terminology all that well...
Just in case anyone still thinks that R3 has been discovered in Innsbruck, I ought just to confirm that it was a thoroughly nefarious April Fools' Day joke. The symphony, sadly, remains lost (verschollen)...
...
Ok.
That was what was confusing me, and now I am -- enlightened. About this, anyway. I would not go so far as to claim generally :D
Eric
Nice one, Alan! Well done.
Why don't they just look in that box? :'( ;D ;)
waowww ... I consume the excitement of this discovery, the sad thing is that I have not had the opportunity to hear the music of this composer, here in central america the truth is too difficult and costly to acquire good records, and this type is truth impossible, they will know of a link to listen to some radio rufinatscha on YouTube or online? please, curiosity is killing me, I listen ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ :'(
Sorry, Namoji. This guy's REALLY obscure. There has been some chatter about some local orchestra here in the States performing the 5th Symphony, but I haven't heard whether this has ever come to pass.
That's a good one, Alan!
But I had a little hope that your next post informed us about Professor Decker's other spectacular discovery, namely the score of Rufinatscha's unknown Seventh...
Well, I might ask him. If he existed...
So what is the truth, then, Alan? Is there more material to be sifted through, or have the Rufinatscha manuscripts donated to the Museum all been mined out?
There is a very extant Bauernfänger, though...
Quite. Seems no-one has a dictionary.
As for the state of things in Innsbruck, I have no idea. But if there were an undiscovered symphony there, they'd have found it by now...
There is a "3rd" Rufinatscha symphony in D major op. 13 described in this Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung article (http://books.google.com/books?id=2mEPAAAAYAAJ (http://books.google.com/books?id=2mEPAAAAYAAJ) , page 32) - the opening theme of the first movement of the work (Adagio molto - Allegro) (D halfnote - Fsharp double-dotted quarter- A eighth - Csharp halfnote- D quarter) is given , followed by themes from the rest of the first movement, from the E-flat major scherzo, the G minor Adagio, and the D major allegro moderato alla breve finale. Does this match the movement pattern of any of the known Rufinatscha symphonies (making "3. Sinfonie" in the header of the article a misprint maybe)? Even more, do the themes given in the article (found by searching for Rufinatscha Johann at books.google.com of course) match the main themes of one of those symphonies (full score, or the one that's only now in piano score)? Alternatively, might this article (very very unlikely unto infinitesimally) have incipits from the lost symphony?
The Op. 13 is the Symphony #6, Eric. Sorry, but that is either a misprint or an error on the part of the author. Or perhaps it's some sort of listing number that has nothing to do with the numbering of the symphony.
Ah, interesting. Thanks. Do all the extant symphonies have opus numbers, by the way?
Eric
Apparently the 5th doesn't, nor the does the 1st, at least according to the notes accompanying the CD. I don't know if the booklet neglected to mention opus numbers or if there weren't any to mention.
Generally, opus numbers are set by the composer and the publishing house at the time of publication.
I couldn't find a more recent Rufinatscha thread to put this in, but Rufinatscha's 5th was performed in Philadelphia last August, at least according to this (http://orchestrasociety.org/person.php?id=71). Has this guy Kevin Scott been a member of either this forum or the Raff Forum? In any event, I'd be curious about how the performance went, and what sort of reviews the symphony got in the local papers.
P.S. I think he may be our member KLScott. He hasn't visited us for a while, though.