Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 17 April 2013, 18:44

Title: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 17 April 2013, 18:44
The new CD of music by Cyril Scott is, I am sure, one that all lovers of heaving late-Romantic concerti will want to acquire. As I write this I am listening to the Piano Concerto of 1900, 'as realised and completed by Martin Yates', the conductor, and it's a simply gorgeous work. With Peter Donohoe as pianist, the work is in safe hands too. Glorious is not too strong a word for this lovely music.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: kolaboy on Wednesday 17 April 2013, 22:05
Donohoe rules. Should have won the International Tchaikovsky Competition in '82.
Politics, politics...
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 17 April 2013, 22:16
My copy has arrived, and I look forward to hearing these works tomorrow. Thanks for the appetiser, Alan.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 18 April 2013, 01:39
The public library here has their CD of his violin and piano music , noticed again- really need to borrow that!...
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 19 April 2013, 09:55
This is early Scott and therefore much less quirky than his later music. Nothing to frighten the horses, in other words.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 19 April 2013, 17:06
Actually, I bought this recording with some misgivings (I'm not really a Cyril Scott fan) but have really rather enjoyed it. I suspect that this is because, as Alan has pointed out, this isn't mature Scott. In addition the conductor Martin Yates has had a hand in editing or revising all three works, and this is particularly true of the First Piano Concerto, which is the major work here. It is an extremely rhapsodic piece (imagine very laid-back Rachmaninov) but, despite lasting around half an hour, it holds the attention well, is very attractively orchestrated and has some good tunes. The single movement 20 minute long Cello Concerto is similarly attractive, especially the closing pages, and I'd say has a bit more guts to it. The CD opens with a longish (17 minutes) Overture to Pelleas and Melisande, which is very similar in character to the Piano Concerto: lushly orchestrated and with an abundance of melody. All in all, a very worthwhile addition to the collection.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 19 April 2013, 17:13
There's an account from both sides of a few meetings between Scott and Debussy earlyish in the former and late in the latter's career in Nichols' "Debussy Remembered" - mentions some specific works by Scott that he showed Debussy (not all of which now survive, indeed some of which had already been lost by the time he wrote his memoir)- my copy is in Ithaca where I'm not right this moment, but - trying to remember if it's relevant to this recording as I seem to recall it is to the violin/piano one. Hrm.
Sorry.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: DennisS on Friday 19 April 2013, 17:17
My copy of the CD is on its way to me. I am looking forward to listening to it.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Saturday 20 April 2013, 00:04
Late Scott might well feature in "composers you just don't get" thread. The later piano concertos are very idiosyncratic compared to, say, the 1st symphony. They take a bit of listening to "get" the idiom.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: DennisS on Monday 29 April 2013, 13:46
Having listened to the CD a few times now, I can say that I too find the music very enjoyable. As stated earlier in this thread, the PC is particularly attractive but all three works on the CD repay careful listening. I did not know this composer before reading this thread, so thank you UC for the introduction. I have since listened to quite a lot of later Scott music on YouTube but, as others have remarked, I much prefer the early works on this CD.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Monday 29 April 2013, 16:51
You should check out Scott's First Symphony, which is very accessible and enjoyable.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: DennisS on Monday 29 April 2013, 17:04
Thank you Gauk for your advice. Will listen again to symphony no 1. I have since found that sometimes I need to listen to a work several times before "getting it".
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 29 April 2013, 17:15
I don't get the later Scott at all. In any case, much of that music would lie beyond the remit of UC.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 29 April 2013, 20:50
It doesn't appeal to me at all, sorry. Far too odd and quirky for my taste. But who am I?
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Tuesday 30 April 2013, 13:30
One could draw a comparison between Scott and Scriabin. Both started out as arch-romantics (in Scriabin's case, somewhere between Chopin and Lyapunov) and later became more experimental with respect to harmonic organisation. For both, the later works, while essentially romantic, are not so easily accessible until one masters the idiom.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 30 April 2013, 13:35
Scott went considerably further than Scriabin, developing a form of quirky modernism which I find extremely unattractive.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 30 April 2013, 15:49
Scriabin doesn't get discussed much at all in this forum, that I notice. Outside the remit or not much of interest to forumgoers? (Hrm. Well, I could always start a new thread. Come to think of it, while I'm not feeling too belliqueux, I've always been a bit fier. So... :) )
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Tuesday 30 April 2013, 22:58
I'm not surprised at Alan (or anyone else) not liking late Scott; I am surprised at Alan liking late Scriabin  ;)

In the case of Scott, I strongly suspect that what makes him "quirky" is not the chromaticism, but the unstable rhythm and shifting pulse, which I can understand is liable to sound disorienting. The irony is that Scott's early music, at the time, was considered too modern, while his middle and late period works were considered too conservative. Some people just can't win!
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 07:40
Quote from: Gauk on Tuesday 30 April 2013, 22:58
I'm not surprised at Alan (or anyone else) not liking late Scott; I am surprised at Alan liking late Scriabin  ;)

I don't.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 08:03
Then my original comparison is valid!
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 08:21
Actually, as a matter of logic, the 'validity' of the comparison doesn't follow at all from the fact that the unfortunate Alan doesn't like Scott! Some muddled thinking here. No matter.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 10:27
Quite so. I count myself fortunate to dislike both late Scott (which I find simply strange) and late Scriabin (which I find mind-numbingly chromatic).

As an aside, I am wondering whether it is the obsession with the occult which both composers shared that affects their music in ways I find distasteful. Just a passing thought.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Jimfin on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 10:58
I can't even say what it is with Scott: I've tried and tried, but he leaves no impression on my mind. In theory, he is the kind of composer I think I would like, ie, late romantic pushing on modernist, but I find myself with no desire to listen again for a while, which means that the next time I do, I have completely forgotten the work.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: DennisS on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 13:30
Have now listened again to Scott's symphony no 1 several times. I was not originally impressed by the music as I found it rather bland and felt that it meandered somewhat.  Listenening again, I now find the music quite pleasant, with some nice tunes and attractive orchestration, even though I still think the music is a little lightweight. I will listen again from time to time.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Jimfin on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 14:38
I've usually enjoyed the Violin Concerto when I've bothered to listen to Scott. Today I did too. Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying these early pieces.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gauk on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 19:03
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 08:21
Actually, as a matter of logic, the 'validity' of the comparison doesn't follow at all from the fact that the unfortunate Alan doesn't like Scott! Some muddled thinking here. No matter.

The point was merely that both composers started off as orthodox late romantics and then became more experimental as time went by, so that their late works are difficult listening without a bit of effort. I took Alan as saying or implying that only Scott became a quirky modernist, because he went "considerably further than Scriabin" - which I think is debatable, but not here. Evidently both went outside Alan's comfort zone, so which went further is a moot point.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 01 May 2013, 20:16
For me the question is whether late Scott is worth further effort on my part. I have decided that I have better things to spend my time on...
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 07 May 2013, 01:43
Scott the quartalist is, I believe, the only composer my mother ever asked me to stop playing in her presence. That said, the more I study Scott's motivic compositional techniques the more I understand Debussy's respect for him. And I think his early unnumbered piano sonata and Symphony 1 are most enjoyable -- ardently youthful pieces of real merit. I can't wait to hear this disc.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 May 2013, 02:00
Did she have a similar reaction to Alois Haba? Just asking...
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 07 May 2013, 05:05
Actually, her reaction to Haba was even stronger. But then, she thought I said I was going to play Abba. I calmed her down with a Habanera.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 May 2013, 05:09
Combine with Bouillabaise for Havanaise, then and come around and add capriciously a Rondo, it's Saint-Saëns' way...
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Friday 12 July 2019, 07:04
I'm trying to purchase the complete set of Cyril Scott- Piano Music in 5 vl's but Dutton has deleted it - (Only 1 copy of Vol. 4 left apparenty). The only option left to me are the download available on itunes but I'm also keen on having the booklets. Can anyone here help me with those?
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 July 2019, 12:00
Have you tried Amazon?
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Friday 12 July 2019, 13:04
Amazon - a few volumes available as secondhand CD's
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 July 2019, 15:09
Quite - but maybe better than nothing? It was just a thought.
Title: Re: Cyril Scott from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 12 July 2019, 17:43
Vols. 2, 3 and 4 available second hand on Amazon. Vol. 1 on ebay for £10.