Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Gauk on Sunday 05 May 2013, 12:57

Title: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Gauk on Sunday 05 May 2013, 12:57
The two-piano concerto is evidently not a form used very much in the Romantic period - one imagines for the fairly obvious reason that the piano virtuoso of the period was not going to want to share the on-stage glory. Obvious examples are limited to Mendelssohn and Bruch. Then it is on to the 20th C.

Any obscure examples that can be pointed out?
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 05 May 2013, 13:17
Well, there's the Thieriot Op.77 concerto... by the way, you say "on to the 20th c". The Bruch concerto is from the 20th century- written ca.1912. I'm not positive whether the Thieriot was (c) 1893 or 1903 frankly but it was before the Bruch :)
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: thalbergmad on Sunday 05 May 2013, 13:21
Kalkbrenner and Dussek are the first ones that come to mind. I suspect there are more, but not many.

The Field 5 used to require 2 pianos in one of the movements, but the power of the modern instrument means this is no longer a requirement.

As you say, the 20th Century are littered with two piano concertos and a vast number from Dutch composers, for some reason which is beyond me.

Thal
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 05 May 2013, 13:28
Thanks- also Kalkbrenner op.125 pub.1833, thanks for the reminder, and Dussek Op.63/Craw 206 (1805-6, maybe a little early for this.)
Maybe time to do a bit of clever HMB searching, though... hrm.
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: minacciosa on Sunday 05 May 2013, 16:42
There are actually many more of these than is generally known. Quincy Porter's Concerto Concertante won the Pulitzer Prize in 1954.
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 05 May 2013, 16:50
I've heard the Porter, there've been good recordings. The question was specifically about the period 1830-1900 or so (so even the Bruch wasn't admissible, since it was composed in 1912.)
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Gauk on Sunday 05 May 2013, 17:05
The dangers of mentally pigeon-holing composers by centuries when they overlapped ...
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 May 2013, 00:43
Oh, no doubt. I'm rather a fan of Quincy Porter's though I doubt much of his music would be considered Romantic (maybe late-Liszt Romantic, since late-Liszt is considered Romantic, right? Of course right, by our definition... ok, not going there-but have to, eventually, because it's just plain*mrph* *gags self*) by the standards of this forum - not a sentence for too much to be read into; his 3rd string quartet, like Prokofiev's 1st, is powerfully elegiac, as I recall from the LP (there have also been at least 3 CD recordings, two of them parts of complete sets), a lot of his music on the warmer, less Stravinskian (phew!!) side of "neo-Classical" (no, I am not much fond of Stravinsky, with some exceptions)- then getting harsher harmonically as I recall, though always expressive, toward the end of his career. A student of Ernest Bloch and a friend of Roger Sessions (though not like the latter's middle or later work in sound.)

Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: JollyRoger on Monday 06 May 2013, 02:17
The Concerto for two Pianos by Ralph Vaughn Willams is simply stunning.
http://www.allmusic.com/composition/concerto-for-2-pianos-amp-orchestra-in-c-major-revised-version-of-piano-concerto-mc0002357005

Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 May 2013, 09:22
...but it's not really for this forum.
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 06 May 2013, 10:15
Frank Tapp wrote a Prelude and Fugue for two pianos and strings which I think dates from the 1890s. I might be wrong. I'll check.
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 May 2013, 17:45
According to piano-concertos.org there's also a movement for 2 pianos and orchestra by Sterndale Bennett and a Grand Allegro by Brzowski. (F.J. Frohlich didn't but did write one for piano duet and orchestra.) Gyula Mayor wrote one (2pf/orch) too, from possibly ca.1888?...

(To my surprise, Emanuel Moor, who wrote a harp concerto, several piano, and violin, and cello, concertos, a piano and violin and orchestra concerto, and a triple concerto- did not write one of these... did Röntgen, I wonder?) (There's also Joszef Wieniawski's Fantasia, fwiw.)
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Revilod on Monday 06 May 2013, 19:55
I cannot resist pointing out a fascinating fact about Dussek's  Double Piano Concerto. He completed it in 1806 while working for Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia. They were travelling from battlefield to battlefield in the Prussian fight against Napoleon. The prince was himself a fine pianist and composer (Beethoven dedicated his Third Piano Concerto to him) and, on 9th October, he and Dussek gave the first performance, accompanied by string quartet, at the home of Prince Schwartzburg in Rudolstadt. Astonishingly, the very next day, the prince, at the head of his troops, was killed in the Battle of Saalfeld. (Moral: Battle plans before piano practice!)
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 May 2013, 20:23
Something of that history is recounted in the notes to the one recording (that I know of) of Dussek's 3 string quartets Op.60, which were also performed in that pre-battle concert, I believe. I'd gotten the impression somehow that they were actually played in Saalfeld, though, not in Rudolstadt. I misread *sigh* Thanks for the correction!
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: giles.enders on Monday 13 May 2013, 11:51
At the risk of being accused of another 'laundry list' here are the ones that I know of from composers born before 1880.  This list could be doubled if it included 1 piano 4 hands. I have a list of composers in both categories, born up to 1921 which I would be happy to send as an attachment with an email if anyone is interested.

Umlauf, Ignaz  1746-1796  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra
Mozart, Wolfgang  1765-1791  concerto for 3 pianos and orchestra, concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra  1776/79
Dussek, Jan  1760-1812  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra in B flat major  1805
Kalkbrenner, Friedrich  1785-1849  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra
Brzowsky, Joseph  1803-1888  Grand allegro for 2 pianos and orchestra  1846
Mendelssohn, Felix  1809-1847  two concertos for 2 pianos and orchestra
Bennett, Willian Sterndale  1816-1875  1 movement of concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra 1835
Dutsch, Otto  1823-1863  Sonata for 2 pianos and orchestra
Wieniawski, Josef  1837-1912  Fantasia for 2 pianos and orchestra 
Bruch, Max  1838-1920 concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra in A flat
Mayr(Major) Jacob  1858-1925  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra  1888
Robyn, Alfred  1860-1935  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra in C minor  1900
Hutcheson, Ernest  1871-1951  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra 1933
Hill, Edward  1872-1960  Scherzo for 2 pianos and orchestra1924
Pferdemonges, Maria  1872-19xx  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra
Vaughan-Williams Ralph  1872-1958  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra  in C major  1946
Heintz, Gustav  1891-1946  concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra  1933


Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 13 May 2013, 13:57
Alfred George Robyn's in the list? (AKA Nybor...) Neat. Published work or in ms, do you know? (Large-scale orchestral music was not, I think, what he was famous for!...)

(Ah. Though I see he did write a symphony in D minor and a concerto for solo piano and orchestra, too. My bad.)
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: edurban on Monday 13 May 2013, 14:32
'...Robyn, Alfred  1860-11935..."

Very good genes in that family.

David
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: JimL on Monday 13 May 2013, 14:38
Quote from: giles.enders on Monday 13 May 2013, 11:51Bruch, Max  1838-1920 concerto for 2 pianos and orchestra in A flat
Hill, Edward  1872-196   Scherzo for 2 pianos and orchestra1924
The Bruch is in A-flat minor - a key celebrated for underuse.
And the same thing can be said for Hill as can be said for Robyn Alfred, except that he seems to have been descended from PDQ Bach.  Perhaps on his mother's side?  ;D
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 13 May 2013, 14:42
Alfred George Robyn's dates are 29 April 1860 — 18 October 1935. This is easily checked and double and triple-checked. It was a simple and easily-made typo, sheesh. Use a Dutch-English translator on his Dutch Wikipedia article...
Unfamiliar with Edward Hill- unless it's Edward Burlingame Hill? His dates were 1872-1960 too. Oh. Hrm. Might be! So yeah, 9 September 1872 - 9 July 1960 - see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Burlingame_Hill).
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: giles.enders on Tuesday 14 May 2013, 12:01
About the Bruch concerto:  This concerto was adapted from his Suite for organ and orchestra No.3.  He adapted it for the American Sutro sisters to play, however they rewrote it and copyrighted their version.  There are now two versions of this concerto, Bruch's and theirs.  The Sutro sisters were sharp operators and not particularly trustworthy.
Title: Re: Concertos for two pianos and orchestra
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 14 May 2013, 14:07
Indeed they were. Sharp as knives.

It's some time since I've listened to either work, but Bruch's two piano concerto version is, IMHO, much to be preferred to the original for organ and orchestra, which I remember as a lacklustre, going-though-the-motions affair, at least in the recording which I have. The revisions are quite major I think and Bruch transformed the material in the Piano Concerto to produce a sunny, warmly romantic piece, possibly the best of his last years.