Any knowledge of manuscript locations for Tausig's orchestral works?
1 Piano Concerto 'Phantasie', in ms (possibly non-existent, mentioned by Dannruther? - as noted on another thread)
2 several Symphonic Poems, ms
3 Das Geisterschiff (orchestral version), lost 1862
4 Polonaise for piano and orchestra
5 Manfred, Symphonic Poem
That is an excellent question. Perhaps there is a Columbo among us...
I can't find the source now but I recall reading somewhere that Tausig's manuscripts were lost with the destruction of Königsberg Castle during World War 2.
Cypressdome
I had a search for the piano concerto about ten years ago and could find no trace of it having been performed. Were any of the works referred to ever published. I would imagine the only hope for any of them would be if they were.
I too searched for Tausig's PC - at about the same time as Hyperion began its RPC series - and drew a complete blank. Mike Spring also looked for it and failed to find it.
Every book, report, website, etc, etc, declares that only the scores of Tausig's piano music still exist. Is there any reason to doubt that? ???
Well, we know where books were incorrect (or incomplete)... Schubert's symphonies, etc...
Of course. So when one has good reason to suppose the Tausig works in question still exist, there will be proportionate reason to discuss their content, etc. To assume books are incorrect or incomplete because books have been incorrect or incomplete in the past is obviously a fallacy.
I need no one to point out fallacies to me. I clearly assumed nothing, but merely suggested that to give up or not question further may not be appropriate.
I know the topic is Tausig's non-piano works , but I just want to ask ... Has anyone heard Tausig's version of Chopin's Piano Concerto NO. 1. If so, what alterations did he make? What improvements could anyone in the world do to Chopin's compositions [a curious quire... not sarcastic !!! :)]
It is many years since I listened to that, but now I will have to dig out the recording. If memory serves the answer is not a lot, but he does "man up" the ending.
Chopin is pretty much off limits in my opinion for messing with his works. Those Godowsky concoctions are beyond horrid.
Thal
Quote from: thalbergmad on Thursday 04 July 2013, 08:10
....Those Godowsky concoctions are beyond horrid.
Thank GOD! I thought I was the only one who felt that way. The critics were all going gogogaga over the recordings! :o...
A number of people have made quite extensive enquiries and investigations into Tausig's works not written for solo piano and in each case drawn a blank. This does not mean that something may not still turn up, but it does mean that for the time being the avenues of research have been exhausted. There are other subjects of investigation among unsung composers that may yield more fruitful results - e.g. tracking down the orchestral parts (probably in Poland) of Hartknoch's 2nd PC, known to have existed in the Staatsbibliothek, Berlin, and seized by the Russians during World War II.
Oh, and I don't intend to try to turn this thread into one on Carl Hartknoch!
Belapoel has a point. The lost symphonies of Brotkiewicz turned up as did the early piano concerto by Moszkowski. That said, if a work has not been published and the original manuscript was known to be in a place which was destroyed it is unlikely that it would have survived, Ashton's works with orchestra for example.
What is of interest to me and perhaps others in this forum would be contemporary accounts of performance of 'lost' works.
Agreed, agreed- the description of Alkan's lost B minor symphony, for instance (though an account not of a performance but of a manuscript that found its way briefly into someone's possession) is enough to give his fans (like me) fits of nostalgia. And given how detailed reviews of performances and publications could be in 19th-century journals (quite a few times several pages with incipits and descriptions, not the 2-paragraph begrudged things one finds sometimes lately- anyway) - it's worth hunting such records up either in scanned-in journals or in copies of journals one's local university libraries might have...
QuoteWhat is of interest to me and perhaps others in this forum would be contemporary accounts of performance of 'lost' works.
Here I agree entirely. It would be very interesting indeed to read a contemporary account of a performance of Tausig's PC or "Das Geisterschiff"(orchestral version) - or any of his works not for solo piano.
Again, out of context here... but Gareth, Who is Hartknoch? I cant seem to find anything about this person.
Carl Eduard Hartknoch (1796-1834), born in Riga, which (I think) was then part of Russia. Pupil of Hummel. Wrote, among other things, 2 PCs (first lost -?) and a Grand Rondeau Russe for pfte (Pub. St Petersburg, 1830). The "Second grand concerto pour le pianoforte avec accompagnement de grand orchestre" was published by Hofmeister in Leipzig, also in 1830. British Library has the piano solo part (and also the Grand Rondeau). The orchestral parts of the 2nd PC were known to have existed in the Staatsbibliothek, Berlin, before the outbreak of WW II, and it is thought they were taken to Poland by the Russians. Parcels of music which disappeared during the occupation of Berlin by the allies are still coming to light and (sometimes) being returned to the Staatsbibliothek. I hope Hartknoch's PC will turn up eventually. It is an accomplished work in the early Romantic style. Hyperion wanted to record it.
3 works of his (Hartknoch's) have been (re)published (solo piano works I think, or solo piano parts of larger works) - sonata op.1, grand rondeau russe op.6, Trois nocturnes caractéristiques - by Van Sambeek of Amsterdam, in 2011. So this is not a belated April Fools' pun on college of Hartknoch's, or at least it seems not limited to this forum, anyway. (Maybe Robert Layton at work, again. Er- sorry. Suspicious fellow, me. Just joking!)
Also, there is some information about him available...
the standard database Musicsack gives this: MusicSack (http://musicsack.com/PersonFMTDetail.cfm?PersonPK=100023083) (which lists 7 reference sources that mention him, and an alternate transliteration for a surname that was probably originally in Cyrillic - Gartknokh) and also see VIAF (http://viaf.org/viaf/40131240). (MusicSack notes that some sources have 1775 or 1795 for bdate.)
erm, also, here (http://www.biografija.ru/biography/gartknokh-karl-eduard.htm) is a bio page about him in Russian. There y'are. :) (apologies for passing off the translation to Google. Maybe a new thread?)
in 1980 Polish label Wifon issued a cassette with solo piano music by Tausig played by Michael Ponti (recorded on 31 May 1980 at the Warsaw Philharmonics). In the sleeve notes Mr. Dybowski mentioned: "unfortunatelly, not all of his compositions have been found yet, the most regrettable loss being his Piano Concerto whose last movement is reputedly a magnificent polonaise".
It is worth mentioning that Wifon company in 1989 issued on LP Tausig's Ungarische Zigeunerweisen in version for piano and orchestra done by Albert Eibenschutz. This performance was later reissued on CD by Le chant du monde (coupled with the Chopin's PC no. 2 in version by Cortot and Allegro de Concert in version by Nicode). Pianist was Setrak playing with Polish Chamber Philharmonic under Wojciech Rajski
I really don't like digging up ages old threads, but this concerns a long-regarded "lost" work which should be addressed. In regards to Tausig's "Das Geisterschiff", a large amount of literature and sources list the orchestral version as lost... however, in truth I just noticed the manuscript full score is safe and sound at Goethe- und Schiller Archiv at Weimar. Tausig seems to have given the score to Liszt who had kept it in his possessions, which is why it can be found under miscellaneous scores attributed to Liszt.
The score has been digitized by the GSA. Immediately one will notice the unusually broad instrumentation which is for a "very large orchestra" and Tausig even cheekily writes in the margin of the manuscript: 156 players in total. Such fun! Note the eclectic parts for 'contrabass trombone in B' and 'contrabass tuba in E' among other things...
I'm glad you resurrected this thread - such an interesting update! Thanks!
That is superb news - perceived wisdom was that the score was destroyed by bombing in the second world war. I'm glad to hear that is wrong! Now all we need to do is get someone to record it 😊
Yes, indeed. Very well done - a marvellous find. Now if only the PC would turn up! I'm sure that would be something quite exceptional.
Sadly the PC is not sharing company with the Geisterschiff, believe me I would have been shouting it from the rooftops if I saw that!
There's a few other curious handwritten scores in this collection too (under Liszt Noten, Nachlass > Sammlungsstücke). It is mostly printed early editions, but a few handwritten scores as well. These include a String Quintet by Emilie Mayer; a Fantasie for Violin and Orchestra and an Orchestralstück by Leopold Damrosch and a full score to Franz Doppler's opera "Benyovsky"...
... I find those of interest too, I wonder if cpo has already grabbed the quintet? :)
I agree. Very much of interest.
I apologize for the tangent, but is the Mayer one of the two quintets listed @ Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Emilie_Mayer) (in D major & minor respectively) do you know? (Has it been digitized? I guess I should just go check, sorry. It's a really good website.)
Its signature is GSA 60/Z 65, and it's been digitized. No explicit key has been stated on the Quintet's title page, but it seems to be the d-minor one (begins in minor mode, anyway). It's scored for two violins, two violas and a cello.
Yes, it looks like the D minor quintet. Certainly begins in D minor and 1st movt. ends with a D minor chord.