Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: musiclover on Wednesday 14 August 2013, 12:20

Title: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Wednesday 14 August 2013, 12:20
Anyone know anything about a rumour going around that the RSNO has recorded an orchestration of the Bax Symphony in F with Yates & Dutton?
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Sunday 18 August 2013, 15:09
I'm now a little confused regarding which symphony this is. Could this rumour be about the un-finished symphony of Bax (1906/7)? If so this could be fascinating. Anyone any ideas or clues?
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 18 August 2013, 17:49
I've heard nothing.
Tom
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: BFerrell on Monday 19 August 2013, 10:36
I am sworn to secrecy. Patience.   :-X
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 19 August 2013, 17:27
...which means that the rumour probably has legs. Watch this space...
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 12:01
Such intrigue.....if it is that un scored work, it is supposed to really long....if it's true this will be a massive coup for Dutton.....until we know more I can only wait with baited breath!
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 12:05
I can see you going red in the face already! Don't forget to breath out.... ;)
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 12:22
On the odd occasion when I've been able to drop a tantalising hint about an upcoming Raff release, I've had much more fun from how wrong people have guessed than I've had worries about correct guesses.  ;)
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 12:24
I'm quite sure I am wholly naive and missing out on something obvious to others. But refusing to get excited about anything until I know what it is (maybe just as well I didn't espouse that view in my first teenage fumblings), I don't really grasp the point of all this cloak and daggers and lips sealed secrecy stuff.

Obviously if a person is told something in confidence then (s)he is bound to respect that confidence. But I don't see why record companies want to keep top secret future release plans. After all in the publishing world a publisher often says 'in the autumn we're going to publish a new biography of Frederick the Great'. That news can be of value to those interested in the subject, and it likewise benefits the publisher by preparing the way to a successful book launch.

So why the utter secrecy about recording or release plans? What's the justification for it? Wouldn't it be quite absurd for a concert organiser to book a venue, make a contract with musicians to perform in it, and then say: Tee hee, I'm not going to tell you what so and so is playing until the afternoon of the evening concert? What's the difference?

OK, I know 65 people will promptly rebuke me so I'll shut up!
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 13:12
I take your point, Peter, but I think that the difference is that in the book industry there's no chance of any other publisher bringing out a specific new book because the author has a contract with just the one publisher. In the classical recording industry, the music is generally out of copyright and so anybody can record it at any time, and labels are frightened of some other company trumping them by bringing out a competing recording. In this case, of course, if what is being recorded is an orchestration of an uncompleted work, then that concern probably wouldn't apply, at least initially.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: BFerrell on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 14:30
I think with Dutton it's not so much secrecy as the very quick turnaround time for their releases. Example, they recorded the Matthews Vespers a few weeks ago for release in October/November. They had to hold the 7th Symphony recording to prepare a suitable disc-mate. I only knew about the release from the composer, not Dutton.
The recording last Friday also will be released in October/November. So that's fast. In the meantime any number of things can and do go wrong. Suppose the performer hears the edits and says "no way is that going out!" They have no time to change the release schedule if it's announced too soon.
A good example is the Foulds. Manuscript problems unforeseen has delayed it (maybe). Had  I not mentioned it (shame) no one would even be expecting such a release. Now it may be delayed or postponed.
BTW the Bax symphony referred to above is a complete short score of 60 minutes! It was in the possession of Colin Scott-Sutherland all these years. So the actual MUSIC is all Bax.  A huge, sloppy Romantic wallow. Yates did the orchestration based on many of Bax's notes in the score....and I've just said too much already. :-[
Hope that helps somewhat.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 14:40
Many thanks Tapiola (and Mark). Yes, I can understand some very plausible responses to my previous question. And, crickey, there's sufficient in Tapiola's reply to lead to a sharp intake of air in preparation for a whoop of delight. But, of course, any public discussion would be idle tittle tattle and uninformed rumouring, and we won't have that!
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 17:22
Well now I'm holding my breath. Hope I can last out until.....whenever....
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 21:51
Well thanks for the info from everyone. Very interesting, this (if it is released) is going to be extraordinary. I don't know if I can wait! The Moeran 2nd was fantastic so there must be high hopes for the Yates/Bax then. No pressure for him!
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: BFerrell on Tuesday 20 August 2013, 23:42
"Whenever" will probably be the last week of October.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 21 August 2013, 08:21
Thanks. Can't wait - but will have to....
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Paul Barasi on Wednesday 21 August 2013, 13:31
is this in Composers and Music because it isn't a New Recording ... yet?
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 21 August 2013, 17:00
Tapiola reports elsewhere:
I can say it is a wonderful concoction of Straussian/Irish romantic swurls and themes were used in many future Bax works. You'll hear Irish folk-song coupled with Tchaikovskian emotion. Bax was 23 when he wrote it and was in love with every pretty girl in London under age 25.
He realized that a 60-minute symphony with a huge orchestra by an unknown 23 year old would never be performed in London, so he stopped at the short score and moved on to other conquests.
Martin Yates has not added a note of his own and taken Bax's orchestral comments and made a performing version. It's not a reconstruction like Elgar's 3rd or Moeran's 2nd.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 21 August 2013, 22:40
Sounds like an intriguing must-buy to me.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Tuesday 27 August 2013, 15:11
Yes, me too. I phoned Dutton, but tight lips all round. I suppose it will be an important coup if it really does come through.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: BFerrell on Tuesday 27 August 2013, 16:15
Dutton is NOT going to comment yet. I was reminded today not to talk about it just yet.  :-[
I know the symphony is very long and there will be no disc mate. The editing process is not finished and Yates has not given it the green light yet.
Patience is a virtue.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: musiclover on Tuesday 27 August 2013, 21:40
ok, thanks for that info. I can't help trying to jump the gun!
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: chill319 on Wednesday 28 August 2013, 01:45
If Bax's 1908 String Quintet is any indicator, the symphony could be as fine an addition to his list of symphonies as Kullervo is to Sibelius's. The ease with which Bax moves in and out of contrapuntal textures in the Quintet bespeaks a composer whose craft, if not his voice, is fully mature, and whose musical ideas are already arresting.

In case any members of this forum who like Bax have not yet heard the Somm recording of the 1939 Concertino for Piano and Orchestra, completed by Graham Partlett, I'll opine that for me it is, apart from the final Cooke/Mahler 10th, the finest such work I have ever heard.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 28 August 2013, 01:50
Thank you for that recommendation. I will need to have a lookout for that one...
I have long admired the Parletts' work on Bax's behalf.
Title: Re: Bax Symphony in F
Post by: chill319 on Wednesday 28 August 2013, 04:00
Partlett outdid himself here. I defy anyone but the most erudite scholar of Bax's works to detect Partlett in the result. One of the interesting aspects of the Concertino is that it uses great thick two-handed chords much more than earlier Bax concerted piano works. In this respect it sounds as if the textures of Vaughan Williams's then-recent Piano Concerto had intrigued Bax. Assuming that a recording of the Symphony in F is forthcoming (ahem), it will likewise be interesting to compare the 1907 Bax with the Vaughan Williams of the Overture to The Wasps, Toward the Unknown Region, etc.