Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 09:40

Title: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 09:40
Just announced by cpo:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Paul-Graener-Orchesterwerke-Vol-2/hnum/1150232 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Paul-Graener-Orchesterwerke-Vol-2/hnum/1150232)
The Symphony Schmied Schmerz, Op.39, is in D minor and dates from 1912.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 10:16
Worth a punt I imagine. Does anyone know this music?
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 12:48
I don't know the works (not the sort of thing you'd hear at Aldeburgh!), but I'm ordering the disc on the basis of my enjoyment of Volume 1 - and the second CPO disc devoted to the music for Piano Trio.

Looks as if Graener is becoming well and truly adopted by CPO - and I make no complaint about that. Rather wish they'd hurry up, though, in releasing many other potentially treasurable recordings reputed to be hidden away in their vaults. (How about the completion of the Raff string quartet series for example!)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 13:30
QuoteRather wish they'd hurry up
Oh, I find watching paint dry rather restful, myself! cpo's pile of to-be-issued recordings must be enormous.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: FBerwald on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 15:53
Anything by Graener is most welcome. I fell in love with his music when i listened to the Sterling CD. The CPO release of Vol. 1 was wonderful. Im sure I'll enjoy this one was well. Wish they would start on his concertos...
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 23:29
Excellent, excellent! I had been hoping CPO would record this work! I'd be interested to hear if it is a work of greater depth than Graener's other works that have been recorded. Don't get me wrong-I really enjoy his lighter works when I need some balm. :)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 12 September 2013, 03:14
Matesic has recorded Graener's quartet Op.54 (http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet,_Op.54_%28Graener,_Paul%29) over at IMSLP, which might qualify; matter of opinion- have a listen anyway... Good piece, I think, and brief. (Second of - 4 string quartets he wrote?)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 12 September 2013, 16:54
Take a look at this IMSLP page:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_in_D_minor,_Op.39_%28Graener,_Paul%29 (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_in_D_minor,_Op.39_%28Graener,_Paul%29)
The work appears to be in three movements.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: minacciosa on Saturday 14 September 2013, 18:03
I'm dying to hear Graener's opera Don Juan's Last Adventure. The vocal score looks very interesting.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: DennisS on Friday 20 September 2013, 13:23
Thanks to UC, I have made a new discovery; or rather I have re-discovered a composer I had previously underestimated. In view of the positive comments on UC re- the forthcoming Graener symphony "Schmied Schmerz" CD, I decided to further investigate this composer, starting with the first volume of Graener works on CPO. I listened to the audio extracts and really liked what I heard. I decided to immediately order this CD (which happily is on its way to me as I write!). I noted that there was also a Sterling CD of Graener's works, which also got positive praise on UC. I suddenly realised that I already had this CD, which I had ordered quite some time ago, listened to and then left it on the shelf to gather dust! For the past week or so,I have been listening repeatedly to the Sterling CD and really like the music,all the works on the CD, but especially the Wiener Sinfonie, with its quotes from Mozart's Jupiter Symphony and Wagner's Siegfried Idyll. I don't know why I didn't like the music first time round? Of course, I have also ordered the Schmied Schmerz CD. UC has taught me to always give music a second chance (or even a third chance!) : come back to to a piece after a while and listen again (carefully). You might find as I did that one's opinion of the music has changed (for the better!).
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 20 September 2013, 14:52
Quote from: DennisS on Friday 20 September 2013, 13:23
UC has taught me to always give music a second chance (or even a third chance!) : come back to to a piece after a while and listen again (carefully). You might find as I did that one's opinion of the music has changed (for the better!).

How true, Dennis. I've done so time after time myself.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 20 September 2013, 15:01
I can certainly echo that, Alan.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 21 November 2013, 19:29
Well, Graener's Symphony turns out to be an absolutely glorious late-romantic outpouring. One can clearly hear the agony of soul which inspired this (and apparently other music of his) - agony which evidently arose from the death of his 8 year-old son. The idiom is actually very individual - it would be easy to talk about it in terms of obvious composers like Bruckner, Mahler and Strauss, but in truth it's not like any of them. I was reminded for a while in the slow movement of Elgar, but not for long. The descriptive terms that kept coming to mind were 'dignity' and 'agony' - dignity in the face of terrible sorrow.
Now for the rest of the music on the CD...
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 December 2013, 17:17
Has anyone else now heard Graener's magnificent symphony?
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 05 December 2013, 09:27
Not yet, but thank you for the heads-up! Hoping to soon, one way or etc. (If you want to read along with score while listening, you can download that from IMSLP too, btw :) )
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 05 December 2013, 14:21
Thanks, Eric.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: jerfilm on Thursday 05 December 2013, 14:34
Have not seen it for sale in the colonies.   Is it available for download anywhere?

Jerry
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 06 December 2013, 05:13
Hrm. According to cpo it only just came out last month at all- don't know how long it usually takes for cpo discs to come out here in the states or be available for download. You're right, it's not at amazon, classicsonline or the other places I've checked that allow US download (hrm- I don't have an iTunes-music-download account and haven't checked there. Still, I -do- have iTunes... ah. Nope, not yet listed in the iTunes store either. I feel like I'm forgetting something obvious though...
(should I be looking for sites based -anywhere- that allow download and assume they'll allow download universally without checking IP of downloader? in that case- hrm- yes, I'll do that , may as well... I am ignorant about these things. Is there a way to download things from jpc (Graener CD link again) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Paul-Graener-Orchesterwerke-Vol-2/hnum/1150232) after setting up an account- perhaps so, they are a music store- I gather they'll sell the CD itself anyway for a bit of extra postage, or something, I forget...
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 06 December 2013, 07:56
I don't think that it's available yet as a download, only as a physical CD.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: M. Henriksen on Friday 06 December 2013, 22:14
I've got hold of the CD, Alan. I was captivated by the opening of the symphony. I was impressed by the first installment in this series from cpo, and I'm not disappointed With vol. 2. I think Graener as a composer has surprised many of us.

Morten
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 06 December 2013, 22:56
Savoir_Faire - that's a point, 70-year rule... sorry.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 06 December 2013, 23:19
You can still download it from IMSLP. I just have. I'm not going to be prevented from viewing something just because it is still in copyright if the publisher can't be bothered to make it available. After all, I'm not going to perform the work!
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 06 December 2013, 23:44
I'm still very much looking forward to reading what others think of the symphony as a whole. In my view it's way better than the relatively small beer recorded before this.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: TerraEpon on Saturday 07 December 2013, 05:56
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 06 December 2013, 23:19
You can still download it from IMSLP. I just have. I'm not going to be prevented from viewing something just because it is still in copyright if the publisher can't be bothered to make it available. After all, I'm not going to perform the work!

And despite what they like to spew over on their forum, it could very much be argued that looking at a score to study it falls within the 'educational fair use' clause anyway (as would making one's own arrangement of something, so long as it's not performed or published)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 07 December 2013, 12:51
No, no it can't, far as I know. . Fair use ("Educational fair use?") is fairly strictly defined under law (depending of course on the particular laws; I may be paraphrasing US laws here I think and am not sure of EU laws which I'm not sure of. I think. This next stuff from copyright-related experience over on Wikipedia and general cautions there...), and contains some clauses that this would -not- get out of, such as no other work that is not under copyright would serve just as well for a similarly useful purpose, and only brief extracts can be used. (So, for illustrating Sibelius' 7th symphony on Wikipedia, only the Sibelius 7th symphony, not someone else's, will do, but only brief extracts from score are required of course, but they are allowed; for e.g. illustrating how - well, what would be the question - orchestration? One is already allowed to excerpt a page or so..., I'm sure, and I am willing to do -that-...-  - form? - wouldn't require the Schmied Schmerz symphony specifically - was handled by Graener - form in the Schmied Schmerz symphony (is there something unusual _about_ how he handles certain things compared to other works --)


I'm not a great fan of the EU 70-year rule but the people to get annoyed at, if I may also add, are not a website (which I help administrate) that has been, in the past, if you were not aware, down for two years precisely because of an argument over copyright with - guess who? - Universal Edition, Graener's publisher.
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 07 December 2013, 14:04
And so back to the music, please....
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 25 March 2015, 01:02
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 06 December 2013, 23:44
I'm still very much looking forward to reading what others think of the symphony as a whole. In my view it's way better than the relatively small beer recorded before this.

I just obtained a copy of the Graener Symphony in D minor and my first ever listen was overall a very positive one especially the first movement where the melody is passed on from the strings to the clarinet and lower strings probably with a contrabassoon take over and are slowly drowned out by the strings followed by a trumpet, horn and solo violin ehich is just a prelude for the second melody where the key shifts to major. Very nice.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: sdtom on Saturday 28 March 2015, 15:57
As I work on this review I am more and more impressed with the first movement of his d minor symphony.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Graener Symphony 'Schmied Schmerz' etc from cpo
Post by: sdtom on Tuesday 31 March 2015, 16:14
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 06 December 2013, 23:44
I'm still very much looking forward to reading what others think of the symphony as a whole. In my view it's way better than the relatively small beer recorded before this.

This is my feeling of the CPO recording which overall is quite positive.
https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/orchestral-works-ii-graener/ (https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/orchestral-works-ii-graener/)

Tom :)