Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 09 October 2013, 08:53

Title: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 09 October 2013, 08:53
Lintu's recent recording of Symphony No.2 was excellent, so this goes straight onto my wants list:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/enescu-symphony-no-3-op-and-choir-hannu-lintu-ondine.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/enescu-symphony-no-3-op-and-choir-hannu-lintu-ondine.html)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Friday 11 October 2013, 17:12
I bit the bullet and ordered it too.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 11 October 2013, 17:24
Apologies for slight deviation from topic again, but thanks for hosting the Enescu Festival recording of this work in the (up/down)loads section (I do need to get a "proper recording" too before too long; this symphony does fascinate me, and I don't mean because its published score, at least the one that the NY Public Library has, is too squintingly compressed to be properly readable- this for a work that should properly, like Szymanowski's 2nd symphony in his complete/collected edition (is), be published over, not under, size. :) )
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: chill319 on Sunday 13 October 2013, 04:57
From "Enescu: His Life and Times," by B. Kotlyarov. "In 1919 Enescu finished his third, C-Major Symphony, Op. 21. This work, which took him three years to complete, came as a result of sustained reflections; as a progressive artist he had been staggered by witnessing the sufferings of mankind during the First World War. He returned home from abroad when the war broke out, for he wanted to be with his people in those years of hardship. As a patriot he chose to share the fate of his fellow countrymen and their difficulties although he could easily have found a safe refuge in any part of the world....As usual he turned his sympathy to action. He gave concerts for the wounded, prisoners of war and students, performing as soloist and conducting the symphony orchestra he had formed in the town of Iasi. The proceeds from these concerts went to charities. He saw all the misery and distress the war had brought to men and women; this made him revolt against the forces of destruction, agains the absurdity of war, and as an artist he condemned it in his Third Symphony." In point of fact, Enescu's third symphony does much more than condemn man's inhumanity. It tries to demonstrate a way to transcend it.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Monday 14 October 2013, 17:01
I'm looking forward to it.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 14 October 2013, 17:40
Just re-listened to Gergiev's broadcast.
Looking forward to hearing how you find Lintu's recording!
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 16 October 2013, 18:28
Still waiting for arrival
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 16 October 2013, 19:10
It's not out in the UK until 4th November...
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 17 October 2013, 04:04
I'd thought for some reason that it was a vocalise in the finale- did Enescu write the text himself? Apologies for not tracking well...
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Friday 18 October 2013, 23:33
Enescu's Third is a masterpiece IMO, progressing from a darkly troubled first movement to a gloriously affirmative conclusion. I have always thought of it as a hybrid of the poignancy of Schmidt's Symphony no. 4 and the voluptuousness of Scriabin's Third.

Is it too much to hope for that Lintu will record the four Study Symphonies and the completions of nos. 4 and 5? The Study Symphony no. 4 (recorded by Olympia) has nothing "academic" about it-a fine work that deserves a modern recording.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 19 October 2013, 02:11
I thought Study Symphonies 2 and 3 were lost? ... Erm- not sure, though.
A commercial recording of symphonies 4, 5, Isis and such works would be a very good thing (I know of no such recording of Bentoiu's completions...)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 19 October 2013, 07:54
Yes, I am sure that I've read that the middle two study symphonies are lost. Also, a well known recording label proprietor told me a few years ago that he had tried to track down Olympia's rumoured recordings of them, allegedly made but not released because the company subsequently went under, but that it turned out to be a fiction: Olympia had indeed tried to trace the two symphonies, but had drawn a blank.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 19 October 2013, 15:26
Pity! I haven't yet heard study sym. no. 4 (I should just go listen to a YouTube video... :) ) but I really enjoyed no.1. Not just an accomplished student work but full of personality (not in the sense of sounding like Enescu-with-opus-number - early middle or late - just - not-anonymous; well-marked*, themes strong and memorable, I felt - if it reminded me a bit of Volkmann's 1st somehow, I didn't mind...)

*Agh, I take only two semesters of German- back in 1991...- and I feel like I'm thinking in it, or something. "markiert", obviously... / marcato /... (bien marqué??)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 12 November 2013, 22:42
My copy of Lintu's recording of the 3rd Symphony has now arrived. It's a must-buy for lovers of late-romantic symphonies and - thankfully, some would say - much less of a 'sprawl' than some pieces one might name. In fact, at just over 46 minutes, it's almost concise! At any rate, anyone who likes, say, Bloch, Strauss, Marx or Scriabin (with a shot of Ravel's Daphnis, maybe), is going to like this too. Great stuff - and marvellously played and recorded.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 13 November 2013, 15:38
I got my CD of the Ondine Enescu today. Will be listening to it today.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 13 November 2013, 20:50
I've heard two other performances of the symphony, I think (the one we have in the downloads section, and the one on Marco Polo (coupled with the symphonie de chambre on a 1988 CD- can't recall if I returned it because it was a damaged CD or a library CD!...  might be on Naxos now but I don't think it is :( ...).

There've been others on Olympia, Chandos, etc. (haven't heard them yet, I believe, but others have, I expect.) How does the Lintu compare (may as well ask now even though it's possible no one here yet has heard it and another recording/performance of the work often enough to say?) Would be interested to know.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: DennisS on Friday 15 November 2013, 14:41
Reading this thread on Enescu's Symphony no 3 made me check to see what CDs I had of Enescu. I found that I had a double CD of his suites and rhapsodies and also a CD of Study Symphonies 1 and 4 (kindly given to me by a friend). I particularly liked the study symphonies but did not at the time go on to explore the symphonies (probably because at that time, I was buying so many CDS that I was restricted by how many  I could buy : nothing much has changed since then as I still buy many CDs each month!!!). The enthusiastic comments on the new Lintu Ondine recording of Enescu's symphony no 3 prompted me to check this work out. As already reported, there are quite a few versions available and it's difficult to decide which version to buy if one only wants one version of the work. I have discovered that the timings of this work vary on the versions I found with timings given. The Lintu Ondine version is 46:11, Rozhdesvensky BBC PO 54:42, Mandeal Bucharest PO 50:20, Orchestre de Monte Carlo Foster 49:49 and Mariinsky Orchestra Gergiev (live perf. on Youtube, also still in downloads UC) 51:29. As is obvious from these timings, the Lintu version is faster (much faster) than all the other versions. I will be very interested to read fellow members' s view on this latest version, before purchasing the work.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Monday 18 November 2013, 00:35
As Alan says it is a must buy and I agree.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Friday 29 November 2013, 17:09
What are the forum thoughts about the Arte Nova and the EMI releases of Enescu? They seem to be quite reasonable but I have little experience with the Monte Carlo  Symphony and Budapest orchestras in regards to Enescu. The releases seem to be quite reasonable. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Friday 29 November 2013, 19:50
The Arte Nova recordings are fine, but they lack the conviction and vitality of Rozhdestvensky's recordings on Chandos. I'm not familiar with Foster's recordings on EMI, except for that of the masterful opera Oedipe (one of my favorite operas).
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: chill319 on Friday 29 November 2013, 22:16
Enescu's symphony 1 is a much greater work than Cristian Mandeal would lead you to believe on Arte Nova ANO 373140. The download in this site's archive, poor as it is sonically, gives a far better idea of what Enescu wanted us to hear. I'm much keener on Mandeal's Symphonies 2 and 3, perhaps because I came to the recordings expecting much less of the Bucharest Philharmonic in its traversal of these virtuosic scores. In the event, the players do themselves proud. But if symphony 1 is any yardstick to judge by, Rozhdestvensky on Chandos has greater insight into the music.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Saturday 30 November 2013, 16:24
Any thoughts on the Marco Polo series? I just saw these this morning on the Naxos website.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Saturday 30 November 2013, 19:48
I've only heard the MP recording of Symphony no. 1 and the Sinfonia Concertante. The performances are certainly more than serviceable but, again, not on the same level as Rozhdestvensky on Chandos. Do you own the Chandos recordings, Tom? If not, I would encourage you to look into those first. :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 01 December 2013, 17:46
I will look into the Chandos recordings
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Monday 02 December 2013, 16:42
I was able to get the downloads from Naxos at no charge so I guess I can certainly start with those but I'm still interested in the Chandos recordings.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Saturday 07 February 2015, 14:11
I just received from Naxos the Ondine recording of the 1st Symphony of Enescu. It is coupled with the Concertante. Any thoughts on the recording?
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 08 February 2015, 16:04
I also have a question. Is anyone familiar with his 5th symphony? I saw a CD available on CPO.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 08 February 2015, 16:21
The 4th and 5th are completions (made in the 1990s) by Pascal Bentoiu. Broadcasts of them have been uploaded here from an Enescu Festival (an alternate radio broadcast of the 5th was also uploaded here but is the same as the recording conducted by Ruzicka that has now been released on cpo and has, I assume, since been removed :) )

Ruzicka will be conducting the 4th symphony this year at the Enescu Festival, I gather.

According to an online Enescu catalog--


Unfinished drafts of the--
    4th Symphony (complete 1st movement and fragment of the 2nd movement, 1934) [E minor?]
    5th Symphony in D Major for tenor, female choir and orchestra, last movement on verses by Eminescu (1941)

The 5th symphony- as completed by Bentoiu anyway; haven't seen Enescu's drafts, so I have no idea how much of this is Enescu and how much is Bentoiu- has a very effective funereal march within...

These symphonies by Enescu completed by Bentoiu shouldn't be confused of course with Bentoiu's own 7-plus symphonies :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 08 February 2015, 16:46
I also noticed that Dennis mentioned study symphonies of 1 & 4. Are these the same symphonies or different?
Tom :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 08 February 2015, 17:56
They are different. They predate Symphony No.1. Only Nos 1 and 4 have been recorded.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 08 February 2015, 18:56
I found the #4 Study Symphony on Olympia but not the first. It appears to be on Vol. 6 which is not available.
Tom
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 08 February 2015, 19:55
You can buy it here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchestral-Works-Romanian-National-Orchestra/dp/B0000260JS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1423425126&sr=1-2&keywords=Enescu+Study+symphony (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchestral-Works-Romanian-National-Orchestra/dp/B0000260JS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1423425126&sr=1-2&keywords=Enescu+Study+symphony)
And for only £6.99 (used)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 08 February 2015, 23:39
Bentoiu writes about some of the 5th symphony here (https://books.google.com/books?id=MeKZDQ0hVgEC&pg=PA503) (and about a partial completion by Taranu; I am not certain that when he wrote this book he had undertaken- his 1990s completions. The Google copyright says 2010, but I think it's just a translation of a 1984 Romanian book by Bentoiu. Still, lots of music examples from many Enescu works, the symphonies, plural, included). "The composer managed to orchestrate 152 of the approximately 220 bars of the first movement..." etc.

Hrm, yes and no and yes and no and...--
p.522: "Addendum to the 2nd edition. While I do not wish to alter at all my book of 1984..." - a section on his unfinished symphonies specifically, added after Bentoiu had prepared perf. editions. So for some information about those, one can look there (https://books.google.com/books?id=MeKZDQ0hVgEC&pg=PA522). (And yes, he notes separately the school symphonies ("study symphonies") composed between 1894 and 1898.)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: chill319 on Monday 09 February 2015, 01:05
I'm not sure why Enescu is being discussed in this forum, but it is true that his fifth symphony is a retrospective work that sounds far more friendly to pre-Great War sensibilities than his tone poem Isis of twenty years earlier, which is startlingly modern.

With Symphony 5 Pascal Bentoiu had, at the start, most of the first movement in full score, and for the rest a short score. So CPO is really bringing us a great deal of authentic Enescu. The transition from Enescu the orchestrator to Bentoiu as orchestrator is not entirely seamless but is nearly so. Those who, like myself, think Enescu one of the great geniuses of music, cannot but be grateful for his efforts.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 February 2015, 07:59
QuoteI'm not sure why Enescu is being discussed in this forum

Well, much of his music fits here perfectly well. And the subject of the thread is the 3rd Symphony which is entirely suitable for discussion at UC.
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 11 February 2015, 16:48
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 09 February 2015, 07:59
QuoteI'm not sure why Enescu is being discussed in this forum

Well, much of his music fits here perfectly well. And the subject of the thread is the 3rd Symphony which is entirely suitable for discussion at UC.

I think it is too. In fact I didn't start the thread at all, Alan did.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 11 February 2015, 22:16
Thanks. That's sorted, then...
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: sdtom on Saturday 14 February 2015, 14:59
I just completed listening to the new recording from Ondine of his 1st symphony. It will replace my Marco Polo CD from 1991 as the sound on it is somewhat muddy.
https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/symphony-no-1-in-e-flat-major-op-13george-enescu-1881-1955/ (https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/symphony-no-1-in-e-flat-major-op-13george-enescu-1881-1955/)

I'm hoping that the series will continue.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Enescu Symphony 3 etc. from Ondine
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 14 February 2015, 18:17
I enjoy many Marco Polo recordings - including some of the Enescu ones (chamber, mostly, I think) - but for his orchestral music it's a good thing there's quite a lot of competition (including some good broadcasts of 4 of the 5 numbered symphonies- including the 2 completed by Bentoiu- from the 2011 Enescu Festival, unfortunately no longer available as uploads from here... used to be. The performance of no.1 conducted by Christian Badea seemed quite good, but I like very much what little I've heard of his work- mostly excellent performances of difficult to conduct, multi-layered modern music (some of which I like very much and his ability to communicate what's in the score (and help, or not mess up :D, articulate[ing] it) has seemed among the best.) (Which seems to have been one thing Enescu and Schoenberg did share for all that they didn't- their later scores are -filled- with "additional" articulation marks aplenty (no more than are needed, of course*)

*but - well... - wasn't I displeased when a teacher returned my final exam for a college [music] composition class with a note asking if I'd learned anything, from him or from the composers we studied (in that or some other classes I'd taken he'd taught), about the need to articulate more... not less (and the why of it, too.) (And no, I didn't really understand, not back then :))