I've just had one of those moments of rediscovery/true discovery. It concerns the superb four late symphonies by Muzio Clementi (the ASV recordings conducted by D'Avalos, just reissued for next to nothing by Brilliant), especially No.4 which has hit me like a sort of musical exocet. I had completely forgotten how good these symphonies are - how grand, how forceful (wonderful brass writing), how memorable.
Has anyone else had such an experience? Maybe you've bought a CD, not listened to it properly and then discovered it again later?
Yes, Alan. But you sure won't want to read on! For it was Birtwistle, no less! The opera Mask of Orpheus. I picked up the CD recording years ago, had a listen, got quite baffled, and laid it to one side intending (quite unsincerely) to have another go. And there it lay gathering dust. The more recent Minotaur (a rather tedious piece I thought) did nothing to hasten me back to Orpheus.
So one for the s/h CD dealer? Before that fate, perhaps one more try. Heck, I'm glad I did. I now consider it a terrific piece. Now the bricks start hurtling towards me! I can live with that.
Peter
I had set myself the task of clearing out some old tapes and nestled in between Winifred Atwell and the Best of Mrs Mills was Reger's Variations on a Theme by Telemann played by Bolet, that I had not heard for yonks.
What a stupendous piece of music and what masterful playing.
Thal
PS enjoyed listening to Wini and Mrs Mills again as well
Really? Reger and Mrs Mills? What a combination! The mind boggles!!! I was watching a 'Nearest and Dearest' dvd, with my parents a couple of weeks ago and Hylda ('Has he beeen?) Baker mentioned her. I think Jimmy Clitheroe came up too. My,that all seems a long time ago,nearly as long ago as Reger,almost. Very funny it was too.....but not very pc! (Think I missed out on Winifred Atwill,I'm afraid). Anyway,back to the main topic..........
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 06 May 2010, 19:04
I've just had one of those moments of rediscovery/true discovery. It concerns the superb four late symphonies by Muzio Clementi (the ASV recordings conducted by D'Avalos, just reissued for next to nothing by Brilliant), especially No.4 which has hit me like a sort of musical exocet. I had completely forgotten how good these symphonies are - how grand, how forceful (wonderful brass writing), how memorable.
The Clementi symphonies are really underestimated. Alan, have you heard Scimone's recordings om Erato? I prefer those to the d'Avalos recordings, but perhaps it's just that I heard Scimone first... :-\
I'm satisfied with D'Avalos: I trust Martin Anderson's review:
These are revelatory recordings. The compositional stature of Muzio Clementi has never really been fully acknowledged. Most people get to know his music through those sonatinas we all had to plough through when we were kids – but we didn't notice then that Clementi was one of history's foremost teachers of the piano: his pupils included Field, Cramer, Moscheles, Kalkbrenner and Meyerbeer, and Nicolas Slonimsky calls his Gradus ad Parnassum a "great book of études". The adjective is not one that Slonimsky bandies around easily. Now we find that he was also one of the outstanding symphonists of his generation.
Clementi's piano music has made more headway in the recording studio than his orchestral music has: Horowitz was an early admirer, and his 1950 and '54 performances of three of the Sonatas (Op. 14, #3, Op. 26, #2 and Op. 34, #2) have re-appeared on an outstanding RCA CD, coupled with a 1979/80 live recording of the Sonata, Op. 33, #3 (GD 87753) – real ear-openers. And that live recording is of particular interest now since the first of these landmark discs from AS&V reveals that Op. 33 Sonata to be a version for solo piano of Clementi's only surviving piano concerto – and although it is not authenticated (the single manuscript of the orchestral version is not in Clementi's hand), it certainly sounds thoroughly idiomatic in its fuller form.
The prime mover of the Clementi revival, and soloist in this new recording of the Piano Concerto, is the Italian pianist and musicologist Pietro Spada, who over the years has devoted himself to the editing of Clementi's complete works. These three CDs provide ample justification for his efforts.
Six (largely) complete symphonies by Clementi have survived – two early works and four mature and powerful statements from a composer in full command of his gifts. The 2 Symphonies, Op. 18, published in London in 1787, are all that has made it from what was apparently a copious orchestral output in Clementi's youth. The style owes much to Haydn, as you might expect, but they are sturdy and satisfying works in their own right, well-crafted and enjoyable. As Spada's notes point out, among Italians of the period only Salieri was producing anything of this quality. The undated manuscript of the Minuetto Pastorale bears an instruction that it was to form part of a missing symphony – but obviously a much later one, for the orchestral style shows a considerable advance on those early essays.
Symphony #1 in C Major, like the others, dates from the last 25 years of Clementi's life (Spada doesn't seem to know exactly when), and shows the composer at the height of his powers. The beginning of the first Allegro is missing, and so in the 1930s Alfredo Casella attempted a completion; Spada's edition tries to establish a text closer to Clementi's original. Again like the other three mature symphonies, it is a big-boned work, and Clementi adds to the sense of size by adding three trombones to the orchestra – then an innovative gesture indeed. The sole autograph of the Symphony #2, curiously, is split between two sources (the British Library and the Library of Congress), and once more Spada had to rescue the music from Casella's well-mean editorial interventions. It confirms Clementi's scarcely suspected symphonic talent, its influences now absorbed to produce individual music of moving eloquence and power. With the Third Symphony, the "Great National Symphony", Clementi went some way to shooting himself in the foot, if for the noblest of reasons. In tribute to his adopted homeland, he based the Symphony on "God Save the King", which is hinted at earlier in the work, not least in the second movement, and announced unapologetically by the trombones in the finale. It almost comes off, and might have done with a better tune (now, if he had settled in Paris...). The gem of the four late Symphonies is #4, the source of which is again split between London and Washington. It begins with a spacious slow introduction that announces what was for those days an enormous sense of space; the scoring is similarly muscular. The music then launches into a powerful symphonic allegro that takes the best part of ten minutes to play itself out, displaying along the way a Beethovenian orchestral freedom (listen to the horns at the close, for example). The other three movements are conceived with a similar feeling for size: Spada justifiably claims that the slow movement hints at Schumann and Brahms and that the rhythmic insistence of the minor-key Scherzo (which Clementi rather modestly entitled "Minuet") foreshadows Bruckner; throughout, too, I wonder whether Schubert knew it.
The two straggling works recorded here, icing on a particularly fine cake, are mature symphonic fragments; it isn't clear whether they were written for symphonies that weren't completed or whether they are all that has survived. The Overture in C has come down complete; that in D required Spada to provide a substantial part of the ending: the manuscript breaks off at the beginning of the recapitulation. Its opening, by the way, you'll find as the beginning of the Third Symphony, transposed to G, since that too was missing – Spada's surgery has been attentive and thorough.
Francesco d'Avalos gets predictably fine playing from the Philharmonia, and AS&V give them a satisfyingly full-blooded recorded sound – necessarily so, for Clementi's beefy orchestral textures need it. All three discs can be strongly recommended, but if you want to dip before buying all three, there is no doubt that the Second and Fourth Symphonies are the ones to try first. You'll be back for more.
Copyright © 1993/1996, Martin Anderson
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/asv00803a.php (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/asv00803a.php)
I taped the 'Great National Symphony' off R3 when Clementi was a Composer of the Week. That sort of thing is always good fun,even if it doesn't quite come off. I said to my mother,'He uses a certain famous tune in the finale. My mother said dryly,'I suppose it's 'God save the Queen'!' (The tune can be a bit controversial over here,in parts of Wales). Actually,I taped the other programmes too. I hope they survived my recent clear out. A very interesting & rewarding composer,I thought.
NB: I nearly typed 'Grand National Symphony'. That would have to be played at a gallop!
Some composers have early and evident brilliance; others ripen later. In my opinion no composer grew more over a lifetime of steady application than Clementi. His Gradus is a treasure trove of excellent sonata movements and contrapuntal works that are as masterful as (but less quirky than) Reicha's. It's a musical summation in the sense of Bach's Art of the Fugue. I hear Clementi's late works, symphonies and sonatas alike, as masterful and clearly the product of a mature and original mind.
As I've aged, some complex works that sounded dull or overlong or overstuffed to me in past decades now sound fresh and adventurous. Often these works represent a composer's or period's "later" style. The extreme instance for me is the works of Furtwängler, which for many years sounded to me as if their ambitions exceeded his talents but which I now hear quite differently.
When I heard Barenboim's magnificent account of F2, I had one of those 'I didn't realise the music was so good' moments - a function, no doubt, of great orchestra and great conductor taking up the challenge of an unsung symphony.
F2? I don't recall this thread being about an F. Which F are we talking about?
The Chandos disc in the "Contemporaries of Mozart" series that has 3 Clementi symphonies on it, has a version of the "#1" that blows away either of the other two versions I've heard. It's the London Mozart Players, conducted by Mathias Bamert. Grouped with it are the only two of his earlier (six) symphonies that survive, and I love them also. The orchestra is crystal clear, letting you hear that brilliant orchestration of the first of his "big" symphonies in a way that the other two recordings I have don't even touch. In addition, the overall sound quality of the disc itself is higher; I've usually thought Chandos had really good sound quality.
Just get that CD and check out the first movement of WoO32; if you think that Clementi was a good orchestrator from either of the complete sets that are out, just wait until you hear how it sounds here. I actually consider Clementi the greatest orchestrator prior to Raff. Before I knew Raff, I considered him the greatest orchestrator I'd ever heard.
PS: Pengelli, I think it is the first movement of the "Great National" symphony that is the standout in that work. I've got the first 15 seconds or so after the slow intro stuck in my head right now, just from reading about it. I admit to loving all four movements, though, including the fun finale. I'm not sure why that symphony isn't more famous... the main theme employed in the second and fourth movements is certainly memorable!
What year was it (the Great National) composed? If it was around the time of Beethoven's middle period that use of the anthem in more than one movement would qualify as an early example of cyclic technique.
F2 = Furtwängler 2. See chill319's post...
There is evidently some uncertainty surrounding the composition dates of the four late Clementi symphonies. I have read of a possible span of 1810-1824...
I'm glad you started this thread. I was trying to think of someone 'different' from this period to add to my collection. The only Clementi I have at present is on ye olde cassette tapes,most of them from Clementi's 'stint' as R3 Composer of the Week. (Fingers crossed, I've got the actual programmes,themselves. I did have a major cull of tapes a while back,unfortunately.).
Very enthusiastic and convincing comments about the Clementi Symphonies, combined with a real bargain price, resulted in ordering the D'Avalos recordings on Brilliant.
But I had a "forgotten he was so good moment" a few days ago, listening to the MP disc with De Greef's 2 PCs. Wonderful music which I had almost completely forgotten. It was some kind of an Aha-Erlebnis...
The thing of it is, whenever I have one of those moments I break out the CD and pop it in. I've had experiences of that recently with the Hiller 3rd PC, the Gade VC, the Dietrich VC, the Urspruch PC and Symphony and the Reinecke VC. I'm about to add the Dietrich Symphony to that list. As I was listening to the Fabritius VC I had a similar moment, although that isn't really "great" music per se.
"De Greef's 2 PCs. Wonderful music..."
You guys sure make it hard on the old battered pocketbook. Here I go and order the Devreese concertos 2-4. all the while fighting curiosity and the temptation to add the De Greef CD (which Devreese conducts) ... then this encomium comes along.
Isn't classical music wonderful?
Oh yes, going deep(er) into classical music like we members do is a constantly exiting traveling through a fascinating world, full of discoveries. Sometimes you'll find a real gem that makes you feel happy, or gives you lot of enjoyment, and even can move you to tears. Sometimes it can be a disappointment. However, not rarely you hear new music that thrills at first hearing but has to grow on you, which is a challenge if you take the time that particular piece of music deserves... It's an adventure, and a very pleasant one too. This forum is of great help in finding your way through that adventurous world of sounds.
De Greef as well? Oh no! Seriously,oh good; but I was the one who recommended the Devreese concerto's in the 'contemporary/ling composers post,and it was because of JIML's enthusiastic responce to my post that I ordered the 2cd Devreese set (Cypres).
(And this on top of Cheers Season 5!!!).
Love those Belgian/ Dutch composers. I was listening to a bit of Meuleman earlier. Why so neglected? They seem to be one of classical music's best kept secrets.
Correction: Meulemans!
And I spelt 'response' wrong. Okay,I think it's getting a bit late........
I'm so glad that Clementi came to settle in England, so that, like Handel before him, we can claim him as one of ours!
I remember a really withering review some years back (somewhere????) of a release of the scores (recent edition) of the Clementi symphonies pointing out in some detail how poor an edition they (and Casella's edition before them, too) were - not that Clementi gave the poor editor much help, though. Still, the reviewer felt that Spada (I believe?) could very easily have squinted his eyes a bit and done a much better job. (My expression, and so to speak.)
Eric
I've been listening to some of the Myaskovsky symphonies that Amphissa sent me a year or two ago. I'm still awestruck by the 5th and 15th. I think those are my favorite two of the bunch (mea culpa for those of you enamored of the 6th). I really think the 5th could be a repertory work and make a big impression on audiences today.
Regarding the Clementi review, I wonder if there was a soupçon of sour grapes in it ...
In what way, Kit?
In the publish or perish world of musicology, one who does careful work on a "minor" composer's urtext may find another more "pragmatic" colleague publishing the same repertoire first, after which that well dries up, publish-or-perish-wise.
Quote from: JimL on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:20
I've been listening to some of the Myaskovsky symphonies that Amphissa sent me a year or two ago. I'm still awestruck by the 5th and 15th. I think those are my favorite two of the bunch (mea culpa for those of you enamored of the 6th). I really think the 5th could be a repertory work and make a big impression on audiences today.
With you on the 5th, but I also adore the 20th- the finale apotheosis is a simple notion but very effective.
Re the Clementi review - sour grapes - maybe. I should try to track down that review though- it was very specific (though I must admit too that much of its evidence relied on comparisons with hard-to-verify (?) manuscript sources.)
Eric
Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 12 May 2010, 00:55
Quote from: JimL on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:20
I've been listening to some of the Myaskovsky symphonies that Amphissa sent me a year or two ago. I'm still awestruck by the 5th and 15th. I think those are my favorite two of the bunch (mea culpa for those of you enamored of the 6th). I really think the 5th could be a repertory work and make a big impression on audiences today.
With you on the 5th, but I also adore the 20th- the finale apotheosis is a simple notion but very effective.
Check out the 15th. BTW, I've noticed that in both these 4 movement symphonies Myaskovsky brings back the 2nd theme of the first movement
fortissimo at the end of the finale in a kind of apotheosis. I wonder if he does this in all of his 4 movement symphonies. I'm going to have to check out the 22nd, which is the only other one besides the 6th I have.
Quote from: JimL on Wednesday 12 May 2010, 06:43
Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 12 May 2010, 00:55
Quote from: JimL on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:20
I've been listening to some of the Myaskovsky symphonies that Amphissa sent me a year or two ago. I'm still awestruck by the 5th and 15th. I think those are my favorite two of the bunch (mea culpa for those of you enamored of the 6th). I really think the 5th could be a repertory work and make a big impression on audiences today.
With you on the 5th, but I also adore the 20th- the finale apotheosis is a simple notion but very effective.
Check out the 15th. BTW, I've noticed that in both these 4 movement symphonies Myaskovsky brings back the 2nd theme of the first movement fortissimo at the end of the finale in a kind of apotheosis. I wonder if he does this in all of his 4 movement symphonies. I'm going to have to check out the 22nd, which is the only other one besides the 6th I have.
I've always thought of the 22nd as alternatively a 1-movement or a 3-movement symphony. The introduction to the first movement does return several times during the work and then in heightened form just before the end, I think, but I don't
think the second theme of the first movement reappears.
Also can't recall any reappearance of first movement themes in the finale of the 16th symphony (another favorite of mine)- offhand.
Check the 8th, 9th, 16th, 17th and 19th, though, all 4-movement Myaskovsky symphonies... (+ 5, 6 and 15 aforementioned of course.)
I've just finished listening to the Anton Rubinstein Cello Concerto #2 for about the 3rd time in the last couple of days, ever since I burned it onto a CD for a friend of mine who is fond of cello music (along with the first two Davydov concertos). I still keep on thinking this is repertory material, more so than his 1st concerto, attractive as that one is. Scarcely a wasted note in it, and what notes are wasted I wouldn't do without. The work is structurally unique in Rubinstein's concerto output, and its Russian element is particularly pronounced for Rubinstein. At the end of the finale, I'm so tempted to jump to my feet and cheer I risk bumping my head on my car ceiling, since I'm listening to it while driving. Criminally neglected...
Hi. I last week received the Marco Polo re-released on the Naxos label of Greef's 2 PCs (Devreese), acting on recommendations by members of the forum. Another of the cds on my wish list (the list is long!!!). I was not disappointed. Greef's music is very enjoyable to listen to and I will be looking out for other works by this composer.
Dennis