I have just been advised by Mike Spring of Hyperion that the work uploaded as Kreutzer's 3rd Piano Concerto in E flat Op65 is certainly not the work published as such by Fr.Hofmeister. He has kindly given me a photocopy of the published Op65 and I can confirm this - all three movements being completely different! Obviously this leads us to the next question - can anyone identify the actual concerto we have in our downloads section? It is obviously contemporary with Kreutzer and is quite attractive - perhaps someone had uncovered a 4th Kreutzer concerto! Obviously we need to sort this matter out soon; certainly before any recording plans are put into place!
Do we know for certain if it is not the 1st or 2nd??
If nobody has checked, I will tonight.
Thal
Sorry, I am an imbecile. I see that the download contains the 1st and 2nd concertos as well.
Thal
Well, it's no longer there. Which is okay for me, as I already have his concertos, but ....
... hrm.
(1) that's distressing.
(2) it's -not- distressing, to intuit that Mike Spring might be interested in recording these concertos, maybe, possibly. The first two, at least (well, and whatever no.3 is, but that's now irrelevant, unless... - erm, anyway) - anyway, I quite like the first two... a commercial recording, from Hyperion yet, would be very good, very happy news...
My usual go-tos with a problem like this are RISM-online's search-by-melody feature and things of that sort... might turn up something...
Well, the 1st concerto is correct as I have checked that against the score.
For the 2nd, the score is in my loft but I will check it.
As for the 3rd, indeed the recording does not match the score so we have a little mystery on our hands.
Thal
if you have movement headings for the first two, at leisure (not yesterday or right this moment ;) ) - much appreciated :)
The 1st concerto is:
Allegro Brillante
Adagio
Finale
I will let you know the 2nd when I undertake the next expedition to my loft.
Thal
Thanks!
QuoteWell, it's no longer there. Which is okay for me, as I already have his concertos, but ....
Yes it is. I found the download without difficulty. I can't help with the identity of the so called "Kreutzer 3rd PC" however, so perhaps I'll just shutup.
The 2nd concerto is definately the 2nd concerto which is a bit of a relief.
The movements are:
Allegro agitato con impeto
Andante
Allegro con anima
Thal
Thal, thanks for the movement info.
Could anyone tell me the opus number of his 2nd piano concerto?
What is the tempo of the Finale of the 1st concerto?
assuming there is one; sometimes (sometimes anyway)- to refer back to a long-continuing discussion- published scores and even autograph manuscripts- had (not nearly so much with much more recent composers unless it's deliberately- but - that's the point..) just Minuet or Finale without a clarifying tempo, much less a Maelzel (metronome) marking. (Especially for solo works, where no coordination was needed between performers, but yes, for larger-ensemble ones too. One finds some interesting and thought-provoking things looking through some of those publications and manuscripts, I think. Anyhow. Sorry.
Actually, while I expect the answer is "partially in e.g. Munich and Berlin", I wonder where many of Kreutzer's surviving manuscripts (early, maybe early copies, not necessarily autograph/holograph) -are-?
Also, piano concerto no.2 is Op.50 (his 3 concertos are Op.42, 50 and 65 . The material for the first two can be found at:--
Op.42 -- Staatsbibliothek Hanover (parts, published by Peters, Plate 1471, ca.1825 judging from the plate (not 1818 as the library estimates it, but not, I think, a first edition)); concerto no.2 Op.50, N. Simrock (Harvard and Tisch University (Massachusetts) have the parts- plate 1611?- sometime around the early 1820s, I think. Tisch has the piano part only.)
Regretfully, I cannot read the tempo of the finale of the 1st concerto it is too faint.
The 2nd concerto is indeed Op.50. Published by Simrock, plate 1961.
Thal
The actual tempo marking for the finale of Op42 is: Allegro assai.