Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 01:08

Title: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 01:08
I came across this intriguing German composer while browsing IMSLP: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Ansorge (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Ansorge)

If he is remembered at all today, it is for his piano playing, not his music (he was a student of Liszt). There are ancient recordings of him playing the piano on YouTube, but, alas, none of his own compositions. His output is quite sizable, including a Requiem, two symphonies (one of which is entitled Orpheus), a piano concerto, three piano sonatas, two string quartets, a cello sonata, amongst other works. IMSLP holds four of his works, which appear to be of a turbulently dramatic nature and of lineage from the New German School: http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Ansorge,_Conrad (http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Ansorge,_Conrad)

Anyone know more about him?

Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: jerfilm on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 04:19
According to 1950s grove he also wrote a Piano Concerto.....

J
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 05:19
Oh yes, Wikipedia lists a PC as well, but I somehow forgot to mention it...
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: thalbergmad on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 08:09
The PC is still in hiding, despite considerable efforts to locate it.

Perhaps we need to offer a reward.

Thal
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Martin Eastick on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 10:26
I did have scores of all three piano sonatas at one time as well as a ballade - I ended up getting rid of these during a 'consolidation' of my collection as despite several attempts to find anything worthwhile in all four works, I have to say I was most disappointed with the music. I found his music to be rather dry and melodically uninteresting, and cannot recall any positive attributes! However there may be others here who have different opinions.............
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 22 January 2014, 14:04
Thanks for that report, Martin. I wasn't able to judge the quality of Ansorge's music by merely skimming the scores held at IMSLP. Even so, I'd still love to hear a work or two of his. Like you say, one man's trash may be another man's treasure!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Sunday 05 August 2018, 15:56
Deutschlandfunk Kultur did broadcast two string quartets last evening. They will be issued on CD. The host of the programme mentioned that they will produce the piano concerto soon, too.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 August 2018, 17:18
Well, we'll finally have a chance to evaluate some of his music. Thanks for the heads-up.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 August 2018, 17:25
Ansorge's Drei Traumbilder, Op.8 (1897) can be heard on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2OvxLpf7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2OvxLpf7c)

I rather like them for their gentle lyricism. Nice late-evening listening. The 3rd comes across as more questing, even disquieting. 
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 August 2018, 17:32
Here's a glowing recommendation, plus soundbites, of his Cello Sonata, Op.24 (1909):
http://www.editionsilvertrust.com/ansorge-cello-sonata.htm
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Sunday 05 August 2018, 18:50
Alan, Mark uploaded the cello sonata a couple of years ago:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5819.msg61500.html#msg61500 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5819.msg61500.html#msg61500)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 August 2018, 20:11
Thanks. Must have missed that at the time.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Tuesday 07 August 2018, 06:16
The autographs of the piano concerto (of both the partitura and 2p arrangements) are held in Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin, though perhaps this was already well known at this point.

http://stabikat.de/DB=1/SET=1/TTL=11/SHW?FRST=20 (http://stabikat.de/DB=1/SET=1/TTL=11/SHW?FRST=20)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 August 2018, 12:29
That's not a permanent link, I don't think.

This link should take you to the digitization of the full score of Ansorge's F major piano concerto Op.28 (autograph, ca.1916), which isn't yet (the scanning/digitization) carried out yet but -is- in process: this link (http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB0000AC6900000000).  The piano duet reduction will be here (http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB0000AC6B00000000) when digitized, according to SBB (Stabikat).
Thanks!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Tuesday 07 August 2018, 12:39
Ah, sorry, it didn't link properly, but the entries are found by doing a search for Conrad Ansorge. And yes it appears to be in the process of being digitized. Thanks for the correction and proper links  :)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 07 August 2018, 17:11
It's probably being digitised because someone has requested (and paid for) the scan. I wonder if it presages a recording in due course?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Friday 20 September 2019, 15:10
Lately, I contacted Berlin's Staatsbibliotek about the Piano Concerto Op.28 digitization. It had been unavailable for over a year, but their helpful staff corrected the issue (due to some kind of error it couldn't be accessed before).

Another unsung work for people to digest. I really like how there's a full performance history written on the cover page. Many penciled corrections and alterations decorate the ornate pages of this most curious manuscript. Here's a link to those interested...

https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN730113302&PHYSID=PHYS_0001&DMDID= (https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN730113302&PHYSID=PHYS_0001&DMDID=)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 20 September 2019, 16:01
Interesting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Saturday 30 November 2019, 13:18
I'm very happy to present a Dorico/Noteperformer audio of the whole Ansorge concerto!

Structurally, it's a traditional romantic, 3-movement virtuosic Piano Concerto with a difficult chord/endurance heavy piano part. According to notes on the cover page of the manuscript, it was performed a total of six/seven times in the 1920s. Most pages bear several layers of heavy redactions, corrections, pasteovers and additions in blue and red crayon and pencil. This was very challenging to transcribe, to say the least, but it was a great learning experience for me.

I believe Oliver Triendl is set to record this piece in the near future. The music, clearly influenced in part by the  Liszt, Busoni and Pfitzner concertos and others, is an exciting ride from start to its powerful conclusion!

https://youtu.be/0Fr6S5-1O1s (https://youtu.be/0Fr6S5-1O1s)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: FBerwald on Monday 06 June 2022, 19:53
The video seems to have been taken down.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 06 June 2022, 20:46
You are right. A copyright claim by someone called Monika Adam!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Monday 06 June 2022, 21:34
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 06 June 2022, 20:46You are right. A copyright claim by someone called Monika Adam!
Unknown to me at the time I created this reconstruction from Ansorge's autograph, the score had been edited and performance materials made a few months earlier by someone. That edition had registered for scientific copyright (or urtext or something, I've forgotten what it was called) of 25 years. Monika Adam represents a music rights organization which controls those copyrights and claimed the video.

In my opinion it was unfair, given that my electronic version, for which I did not even use their copyrighted edition at all, is quite in a different medium altogether and clearly there was no financial loss whatsoever this video could have caused them.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 06 June 2022, 22:13
As far as YouTube is concerned, if a claim is made against you, you are presumed guilty - see David Hurwitz's rant against the iniquity of this policy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUSE1xqbFvg).
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: TerraEpon on Tuesday 07 June 2022, 13:22
Quote from: tpaloj on Monday 06 June 2022, 21:34In my opinion it was unfair, given that my electronic version, for which I did not even use their copyrighted edition at all, is quite in a different medium altogether and clearly there was no financial loss whatsoever this video could have caused them.

Given you did use it direct from the manuscript, created over a decade before any copyright that could still hold on it, you had every legal right to make your version.

Unfortunately as said above, that's doesn't stop from getting claimed on YT, but you can make a counter claim and I believe the person trying to claim it would have to actually sue you at that point to get it taken back down.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 07 June 2022, 13:28
Oh dear - sounds horrid. What a muddle.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tuatara442442 on Monday 09 September 2024, 12:55
Quote from: tpaloj on Saturday 30 November 2019, 13:18I'm very happy to present a Dorico/Noteperformer audio of the whole Ansorge concerto!

Tuomas, can you upload it to an online storage site?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Monday 09 September 2024, 17:00
Deutschlandfunk Kultur broadcast a production with Oliver Triendl last year. Would it infringe anybody's copyright if I uploaded it to mediafire?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 18:46
No, I don't think so. If a commercial recording becomes available we'll delete the link.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 09 September 2024, 18:47
That would be really nice of you. Thank you.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Monday 09 September 2024, 18:59
I was thinking of Mrs Monika Adams who was mentioned in this context.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 19:11
Perhaps if the upload were time-limited - to, say, 24 hours?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Monday 09 September 2024, 22:43
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 19:11Perhaps if the upload were time-limited - to, say, 24 hours?

That's a good idea. I have uploaded the file now and included an interview with Oliver Triendl about the concerto. It's in German but perhaps it may interest one or two listeners!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 09 September 2024, 22:59
Have you a link to the file, please?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 23:04
The link is now available in the Downloads board and the post will be deleted in about 24 hours' time. I have also corrected the year of Ansorge's birth - 1862.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 23:41
The upload will be deleted in roughly 23 hours' time.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tuatara442442 on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 00:41
It was a surprise! Thank you very much
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 14:49
The post containing the link will be deleted as of 23:00 UK time.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 16:45
Alan, do you mean that you will delete the post or will I have to do it?
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 17:24
It's my responsibility to honour the terms of the upload, so I'll be deleting the post itself as of 23:00 today, UK time.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 23:02
The download post has now been deleted, as advised.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: britishcomposer on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 23:07
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 09 September 2024, 23:04I have also corrected the year of Ansorge's birth - 1862.

I hadn't noticed the mistake, Alan!
I copied this line directly from Oliver Triendl's website. He lists his repertoire chronologically and places Ansorge correctly between Thuille and Sauer. So it must be a simple typo on Triendl's side.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 10 September 2024, 23:18
I nearly missed it myself - I had to double check!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tuatara442442 on Wednesday 11 September 2024, 09:36
After listening I don't think it's a very impressive work. The outer movements are constantly on the edge of being derailed by uninspired chromaticism. But this is not as boring as Busch and Senfter, and I think the slower passages of the first movement, especially those accompanied by celesta , is of some interest. I also had a listen at Ansorge's Cello Sonata and have listened to his Ballade earlier. They are not of much interest either in my opinion. The coda of the first movement of the Cello Sonata is amusingly over the top, but the passages involving the second subject somewhat made up for the rest of the movement.
The common characteristics of these compositions by these Regerite-likes is that they spins out chromatic notes of not much interest when they are trying to be dramatic, just like their uninspired predecessors pounding out commonplace chords. They can write more engaging music when required to be relaxed, but not always.
Anyway, I'm definitely interested in listening to a new Sauer PC1, though. It is quite clichéd for the most part, I would say. But I love the finale, to the extent that I practiced it a little bit.
 (Did anyone noticed the similarity between the main themes of the finales of Sauer PC1 and Stanford PC3? the latter is also a favorite of mine)
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 11 September 2024, 12:10
Beyond the chromaticisms I didn't find the Piano Concerto at all like Reger. The whole demeanour of the work is much more like Richard Strauss - indeed I was tempted to call it at times rather 'puckish', as though Till Eulenspiegel were somewhere behind the scenes. However, I do agree that one is continually expecting a big, engaging, gushing passage to arrive - but it never really does. Such is the way of things with worthy, but second-tier composers, I suppose. Of course, the work is very late (Triendl gives a date of 1922). Nevertheless, an enjoyable listen - in a modest sort of way. At least it doesn't go on for terribly long!
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tpaloj on Thursday 12 September 2024, 09:48
Quote from: tuatara442442 on Monday 09 September 2024, 12:55
Quote from: tpaloj on Saturday 30 November 2019, 13:18I'm very happy to present a Dorico/Noteperformer audio of the whole Ansorge concerto!

Tuomas, can you upload it to an online storage site?
Now that the Triendl recording has been announced, do you think there is any need to hear my noteperformer rendition at all? I have no objection to uploading it, but I'm just curious.

I haven't listened to the recording yet, but just based on my recollections on working with the score some years ago... I thought that the work had something in common with the style of Pfitzner and Busoni concertos: perhaps, just in concept. Despite the chromaticism which I did not a detriment here, Ansorge has composed a beautiful, poetic work which, while maybe (as Alan has pointed out) leaves the listener wanting a little more of it, contains powerful and enchanting passages and writing for the piano and orchestra alike. A very worthwhile work in my view, worth hearing and studying.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tuatara442442 on Friday 13 September 2024, 07:56
After repeated listening I have to say it is really not as chromatic as I first felt. I think I'm just too allergic to the Regerite chromaticism. Alan have a point that the music doesn't rise to a satisfying enough height. I think this happens in the first movement. And the intermezzo, weirdly, lacks a climax or a high-point in the place of a climax, and feels going nowhere.

Quote from: tpaloj on Thursday 12 September 2024, 09:48Now that the Triendl recording has been announced, do you think there is any need to hear my noteperformer rendition at all?

I didn't know the broadcast has been recorded then, and the commercial release hasn't yet been specifically announced, so I asked.

Quote from: tpaloj on Thursday 12 September 2024, 09:48I thought that the work had something in common with the style of Pfitzner and Busoni concertos: perhaps, just in concept.
I can hardly connect those two with this one: the Pfitzner PC has a similar style of relatively light chromaticism but feels much more inspired in its middle movements. The Busoni PC is at times acerbic but doesn't have "chromatic sludge" in it.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Ilja on Sunday 15 September 2024, 13:26
I tend to agree that the middle movement, though very attractive, is perhaps a bit too lightweight and brief for this concerto relative to the others. But as a whole, I like this more than the Pfitzner; it's certainly a lot better balanced than that work.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: pianoconcerto on Friday 25 October 2024, 23:22
The Triendl recording of the Ansorge Piano Concerto will be released by Capriccio in March 2025 as CD5511.  The coupling is von Sauer's Concerto 1.  A brief excerpt of the Ansorge and the cover of the CD is now at https://soundcloud.com/user-592952001/conrad-ansorge-piano-concerto-in-f-major-op-28
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 26 October 2024, 10:39
Thanks so much for this preview. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: Rob H on Monday 04 November 2024, 11:30
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9730069--the-pupils-of-franz-liszt-emil-von-sauer-conrad-ansorge-piano-concertos

Well here's one I never expected. The wonderfully exploratory Oliver Triendl playing the piano concerto by Conrad Ansorge coupled with the second recording of Emil von Sauer's first concerto.
Title: Re: Conrad Ansorge (1862-1930)
Post by: tuatara442442 on Thursday 06 March 2025, 23:22
The disc has been released today!