Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Christopher on Monday 17 March 2014, 00:11

Title: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 17 March 2014, 00:11
I am travelling to Lithuania this week.

Having done a bit of forward research, one composer whose music I would very much like to hear more of is Jurgis Karnavičius (1884-1941) - I have discovered two pieces of his online and think they are wonderful:

Gražina's aria, from his opera Gražina - http://youtu.be/nFNFUxdyXmw (http://youtu.be/nFNFUxdyXmw) - Sung by soprano Gražina Apanavičiūtė.

and a fragment from what I am guessing is a symphonic poem or maybe an overture called The Oval Portrait - http://www.mic.lt/en/classical/persons/info/karnavicius?ref=%2Fen%2Fclassical%2Fpersons%2F41 (http://www.mic.lt/en/classical/persons/info/karnavicius?ref=%2Fen%2Fclassical%2Fpersons%2F41)

Another Lithuanian composer who has an opera aria on youtube that I am enjoying is Mikas Petrauskas (1873-1937) - Birutė's aria from his opera Birutė - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuMNGJdi4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuMNGJdi4U)  Sung by soprano Asta Kriksciunaite.  Another version here with soprano Gražina Apanavičiūtė - http://youtu.be/WbfATFalqrA (http://youtu.be/WbfATFalqrA)

Does anyone have any further (late) romantic-era Lithuanian recommendations for me?
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: mbhaub on Monday 17 March 2014, 01:34
I have enjoyed the orchestral works of Ciurlionis (1875-1911) very much over the years. The Sea and In the Forest. I haven't listened to any of the chamber music, which I should someday. The recording I first acquired was on the Seven Seas label from Japan, but the Marco Polo is every bit as good.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: TerraEpon on Monday 17 March 2014, 05:53
There's also a nice disc of piano music of Ciurlionis on Marco Polo/Naxos.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 March 2014, 10:02
Try this Wikipedia listing:
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C4%85ra%C5%A1as:Lietuvos_kompozitoriai (http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C4%85ra%C5%A1as:Lietuvos_kompozitoriai)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 17 March 2014, 10:42
Quote from: mbhaub
I have enjoyed the orchestral works of Ciurlionis (1875-1911) very much over the years. The Sea and In the Forest. I haven't listened to any of the chamber music, which I should someday. The recording I first acquired was on the Seven Seas label from Japan, but the Marco Polo is every bit as good.

Am I right in thinking Ciurlionis wrote just 3 orchestral works? The Sea, In the Forest, and De Profundis (chorus and orchestra)?

On the website http://ciurlionis.licejus.lt/Muzika_en.htm#kiti (http://ciurlionis.licejus.lt/Muzika_en.htm#kiti)   it says

"Talking about other notable musical works of Ciurlionis first of all one should mention cantata "De profundis" (1899) - this is his most well-known composition for choir. Symphonic overture "Kestutis" (1902) is no less worth remarking (only piano score remained). There are other symphonic compositions but only their sketches remained.

Ciurlionis created not only folk songs' harmonizations but also original compositions for a capella psalms (1898-1902) and poems written by his whife Sofija (1908-1909).

When Ciurlionis reached the peak of his creative and spiritual development (~1907-1909) he was burning with desire to write his greatest work - opera "Jurate". As J.Landsbergyte (Lithuanian musicologist) wrote, it "was supposed to realize his new musical symbolism, to merge the worlds of musical and pictorial spaces". Unfortunately, the opera was never completed.
"

(By the way, there are free downloads of his music available on that site)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: YankeeMusic on Monday 17 March 2014, 13:34
Balys Dvarionis (1904-1974).

His violin concerto has been recorded by BIS, coupled with the Korngold VC.

Really worth hearing.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Balapoel on Monday 17 March 2014, 16:48
Quote from: Christopher on Monday 17 March 2014, 10:42
Am I right in thinking Ciurlionis wrote just 3 orchestral works? The Sea, In the Forest, and De Profundis (chorus and orchestra)?

Well, beyond the 3 you mention, there's
Polonaise for winds (1900)
5 Preludes for string orchestra (on the same album as the symphonic poems)
Dias irae, symphony (1911) - no more word about this one

and sketches:
Symphony in d minor (1902) -sketches for 1 movement
Lithuanian Pastoral symphony (1911) (sketches)
Creation of the world (1907) (sketches)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 17 March 2014, 18:44
There's also Jazeps Vitols/Joseph Wihtol, some of whose music has been recorded (including his string quartet @ IMSLP, and a number of pieces on LP and CD.)

Unfortunately no recordings I'm aware of offhand, but the same Jurgis Karnavičius you mention composed at least two string quartets that seem interesting. (Actually, Russiancomposers.org.uk lists 5. The first two numbered quartets are digitized and @ IMSLP again.)

It might be nice to hear more by Naujalis or Laurischkus :)


Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: scottevan on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 00:36
Kazimieras Banaitis (1896-1963) fits the bill exactly of a late romantic style composer who is worth exploring. On a radio program surveying Baltic composers I heard one excerpt from an opera of his, "Jurate ir Kastytis" so beautiful that for years I searched for a complete recording. I finally located it through the Lithuanian Opera of Chicago, who had recorded the opera in 1972 and released it as a boxed LP set.

The opera is a Baltic version the Loreley / Undine / Russalka tales of water spirits.  There is a quite thorough online article that sets it in context of other operatic works based on these myths.
http://www.lituanus.org/1996/96_4_01.htm (http://www.lituanus.org/1996/96_4_01.htm)

Outside of Lithuania, it seems that other compositions of Banaitas, even articles on the composer himself, are hard to come by. Yet on the strength of that one work alone I would say he's well worth searching out. Christopher, as you'll be going to Lithuania I'm sure there's a far better chance of discovering the music of Banaitas there than anyplace else!

There is a wikipedia article on the composer, though it would need translation from Lithuanian:
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimieras_Viktoras_Banaitis (http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimieras_Viktoras_Banaitis)


Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 03:04
QuoteThere's also Jazeps Vitols

He's Latvian. Or was. But hey, that begins with an 'L' too....
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 07:49
hrm. Thought I saw him in a list of Lithuanian people, but was getting confused and sleepy and mixing things up. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 12:30
Vitols is most definitely Latvian. But he did write a Rhapsody of Lithuanian Folksongs (unrecorded I believe) - http://imslp.org/wiki/Rhapsody_on_Lithuanian_Folksongs,_Op.39_%28V%C4%ABtols,_J%C4%81zeps%29 (http://imslp.org/wiki/Rhapsody_on_Lithuanian_Folksongs,_Op.39_%28V%C4%ABtols,_J%C4%81zeps%29)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 12:36
Re Ciurlionis:

http://ciurlionis.eu/en/music/ (http://ciurlionis.eu/en/music/)
Čiurlionis' symphonic output is not copious: two symphonic poems In the Forest (1901) and The Sea (1907), Overture for symphony orchestra, the First Symphony (unfinished) and cantata De Profundis for symphony orchestra and mixed choir. His rough draft manuscripts contain sketches of two other symphonic poems (The Creation of the World and Dies irae), the Second Symphony (Lithuanian Pastoral) and several other works (Fantasie, Largo and Prelude).
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: JimL on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 15:44
The way I tell Lithuanian and Latvian names apart is that Lithuanian names mostly sound like they could be Greek, while Latvian names all sound like they could be Russian...with 's' tacked on the end.  ;D
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 18 March 2014, 16:03
Quotebut was getting confused and sleepy and mixing things up. Sorry about that

No apology needed, of course. Vitols is a composer worth remembering anyway.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 19 March 2014, 06:53
I like the music of Ciurlionis, including his piano music mentioned earlier. Although I haven't found the latter especially memorable, it's mostly gentle, melodious and contemplative - which suits me fine much of the time!

In respect of orchestral music, we mustn't forget Naujalis of course - composer of the Lithuanian national anthem. I am not familiar with any of his other compositions, except two rather enjoyable pieces - Autumn and Daydream - that appeared on an old Melodiya LP.

Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Wednesday 19 March 2014, 11:29
My teacher at school said Lithuanian names looked like infections - Tonsillytis, Laryngytis....!  With no offence to Lithuanians - I am looking forward enormously to visiting!!
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: SadRobotSings on Friday 21 March 2014, 04:45
I had a little thread over here going a while back. Laurischkus is a bit of an oddity, I haven't found too much information on him, and little of his work is recorded. I do have a record transfer of his woodwind quintet, based on Lithuanian themes, let me know if you want to take a listen!

http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4719.msg50584.html#msg50584 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4719.msg50584.html#msg50584)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Saturday 22 March 2014, 13:19
Yes please!!  :)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Delicious Manager on Monday 24 March 2014, 17:13
Somewhat off topic, but apparently, Lithuanian is one of the most archaic languages spoken today and the closest living language to the old Proto-Indo-European, from which most European and some Asian languages evolved. To hear a Lithuanian peasant speaking is as close as we can get to hearing this ancient mother tongue.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 24 March 2014, 20:10
Interesting...
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 24 March 2014, 23:41
I made a similar observation about the Lithuanian language - http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1528.15.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1528.15.html) back in February 2012 and immediately got a very curt sarcastic putdown to stay on-topic.  I guess some people will never be in the in-crowd....
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 24 March 2014, 23:51
I have put in the downloads section a recording of Mikalojus Čiurlionis's Kęstutis symphonic overture. Čiurlionis, I understand, wrote his as a symphonic overture, but never got around to orchestating it, leaving it only in piano form. in 1995, the Lithuanian musicologist Jurgis Juozapaitis http://www.mic.lt/en/classical/persons/info/juozapaitisjurgis (http://www.mic.lt/en/classical/persons/info/juozapaitisjurgis) restored and orchestrated it.  I understand this was recorded privately for Lithuanian radio, though it was never actually broadcast (yet).

Kęstutis (1297-1382) was a medieval monarch (grand-duke) of Lithuania.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 25 March 2014, 07:24
Quoteand immediately got a very curt sarcastic putdown to stay on-topic.  I guess some people will never be in the in-crowd....

There's no in-crowd here. But I'm glad you returned to the topic - thank you. And apologies for any inconsistency of reaction to digressions - it's a hard thing to judge.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 25 March 2014, 07:49
Thanks very much indeed for Kęstutis, Christopher.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: semloh on Tuesday 25 March 2014, 11:49
Yes, thank you Christopher. We are most fortunate to have access to this. It's a passionate and most enjoyable piece, and to my ears expertly played, but is it complete? It does seem to tail off quite unexpectedly!  :)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: jerfilm on Tuesday 25 March 2014, 16:23
I second or third or whatever the others.   Thanks for the treat, Christopher

Here's a funny thing, tho, Alan or Mark - and maybe no one else experiences this.  I always have UC come up with the unread topics showing.  And once again it showed all of the new topics except the new download.   And that's happened to me numerous times.  No big deal, of course, but I do have to check the download section for new things from time to time.

Jerry
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 25 March 2014, 17:14
Jerry, I'll investigate this to see if other users of the software on which UC is based have experienced a similar problem. Can't say that I have, though.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Wednesday 26 March 2014, 00:10
I'm glad you enjoyed!  I think it's a nice enough piece too.  I am trying to find if it has been recorded in its piano version to compare and see if it does indeed tail off......
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Friday 06 July 2018, 14:47
I know yesterday's thread on Karnavicius's opera "Radvila"  http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6907.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6907.0.html) was locked almost straightaway, but.... Can I draw attention to an aria from another of his operas, Grazina, which is available on youtube (see above).  It is full-blown late-romantic and very very beautiful.  His overture Ulalume (after Edgar Alan Poe) is similarly a true late-Romantic and very beautiful piece (and available to download on AMF).  To me this bodes well for the likelihood that Radvila would be in the style that this Forum would appreciate (I have some excerpts on LP recorded by the Chicago-Lithuanian Opera Company* and so I can actually confirm this, though I can't post them up here due to house rules - they are also on AMF).

Incidentally, for those interested in history, "Radvila" is the Lithuanian variant of the name "Radziwiłł" - this opera is about Perkūnas Radziwiłł (1547–1603), one of the leaders of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and an important prince of the Holy Roman Empire.

(*Chicago and Illinois are home to a large Lithuanian emigre population)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: mikehopf on Friday 06 July 2018, 23:20
Why was this blocked anyway?

Karnavicius falls well within our framework and his music is both folkloric and mostly romantic.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Syrelius on Saturday 07 July 2018, 06:52
Maybe there has been a confusion re him and his son? The son has the same name and was born in 1912.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 07 July 2018, 09:13
This is our policy:
Please do not post about composers or compositions which clearly fall outside our definition of "romantic". Your post will not be approved. If you are in any doubt, and in any event if the music was written after 1918, please email or PM a moderator before posting.
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html)

In the case of music for which there is no evidence of its style, we must reluctantly refuse permission to post about it. What we need in respect of Karnavicius's opera "Radvila", therefore, is evidence before we can proceed. It would also help us if we were contacted first - as our guidelines set out.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: mikehopf on Saturday 07 July 2018, 10:30
My message simply announced the the impending broadcast of an opera by Karnavicius.

Christopher had sent a previous message about this composer which had been approved by you.

As I obviously had not heard the opera before it was broadcast how could I possibly be expected to " provide evidence" about it.

Besides, on the same day you accepted my notification of the Pingoud work.

Please explain!
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 07 July 2018, 14:38
QuoteAs I obviously had not heard the opera before it was broadcast how could I possibly be expected to " provide evidence" about it

You couldn't - but that's the whole point. In any case, you are neglecting the need to inform us before posting. That's the rule - otherwise we are in a continual battle to make guesses as to whether to allow particular posts. Now back to the topic of this thread, please...



Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 08 July 2018, 12:36
If I upload a 4-minute aria from one of Karnavicius's other operas here, could people then take a view?  It's from a youtube like that no longer works - I converted it to an mp3 4 years ago.  It is Grazina's aria, from the opera Grazina, sung by Gražina Apanavičiūtė (soprano).  It is unquestionably late-romantic in style. Or are you in unmovable mode Alan?
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 08 July 2018, 12:53
You could just use "send user" and message him the link as you should have done in the first place, yes?...
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 08 July 2018, 18:37
Just send the link to Alan, or semloh or me, Christopher. We'll take it from there as we have done quite a few times in the past..
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 08 July 2018, 19:23
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 08 July 2018, 12:53
You could just use "send user" and message him the link as you should have done in the first place, yes?...

As who should have done in which first place Eric? A propos of what?   I am referring to an mp3 version of a youtube link which I drew people's attention to in this thread on Monday 17 March 2014 at 00:11 (it's the first post in this thread).  No one complained at that time that it was inappropriate, so this is somewhat going over ground already covered.  The rules of this Forum are good, and the regular posters to this Forum as far as I can tell respect them. In return can they be accorded some respect, such that if they do post something it is most likely to abide by the rules of this Forum?  Let's stop regarding their wish to share unsung pieces that they feel other members might appreciate as a nuisance, rather something to be grateful for.  I for one am very grateful to Mikehopf for drawing my attention to Radvila Perkunas and I will endeavour to track the recording down.  And will share it, if there are no copyright issues, with whomever is interested.  Thank you Mike.   

The aria from Karnavicius's opera Grazina can be heard here - https://www.pakartot.lt/album/lietuviu-kompozitoriu-operu-arijos (https://www.pakartot.lt/album/lietuviu-kompozitoriu-operu-arijos) - track 2.  Track 3 is another opera from the same opera. I really hope that any rancour or stubbornness from this thread can be put aside and that you will enjoy it, it is truly a lovely piece.
(Patarkot is an official Lithuanian portal with all types of music on it - you can't download but you can listen in streaming, so rather like Spotify.)

https://www.pakartot.lt/album/lietuviu-kompozitoriu-operu-arijos/pirmoji-grazinos-arija-grazina-1-v2
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 08 July 2018, 19:36
On the subject of Lithuanian music, here's a two-minute belter of an aria by Tallat-Kelpša (1889-1949) (whose Overture on Themes from Lithuanian Folksongs I posted up on 17 January 2018 in Downloads) called "My Soul Rejoices Today ("Mano sieloj šiandien šventė") - also sung by Gražina Apanavičiūtė (as with the aria in the post above).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj3Hmk32DO8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj3Hmk32DO8)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 08 July 2018, 19:40
Let me be frank: the moderators actually have lives to live outside the forum, often with distractions which divert our attention from what's going on here. In my case at present it's coping with a 91-year old mother who has falls at home and is waiting for a knee operation. As a consequence I'm going to miss things. It's inevitable.

QuoteIn return can they be accorded some respect, such that if they do post something it is most likely to abide by the rules of this Forum?

I'm afraid experience tells us that this won't work. We must therefore respectfully ask members to continue to stick to the rules about consulting the moderators before posting about any unfamiliar music written post-1918; in this way all problems would be solved before they arose.

Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 08 July 2018, 19:52
I have a similar family situation at the moment and I genuinely genuinely sympathise. On this issue, I am re-iterating that I posted about the aria in question 4 years ago and wasn't chastised for it then.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 08 July 2018, 20:49
Understood, Christopher. I'm accessing the forum on my 'phone right now, but will go back and listen to the aria as soon as I get to my PC later this evening,
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 08 July 2018, 22:26
Now that I have heard them, on the question of the two arias from Karnavičius' Gražina there's no problem, both demonstrate a work of eastern European late-romanticism. Indeed, both have a rather haunting quality which I find rather attractive. So, no problem with Gražina, then. However, the issue there always is once one strays into the 20th century is that the style in which composers wrote can often change quite radically during their lives. Someone who wrote mellifluous, lyrical works in his youth could well be writing extremely spikey atonal music in his maturity. That's why it's dangerous (from a moderation point of view) to make assumptions based on just one work, and why we ask that you ask before posting if the work was written, for the want of a better date, after 1918 - I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of that issue again now. There doesn't seem to be much other music by Karnavičius out there to which we can listen to, so we're guessing. I take mikehopf's point that he couldn't provide evidence when he hadn't heard anything of Radvilla but, as Alan says, that's the point: if Mike had contacted one of the moderator's we could make the decision. The worst that would have happened in the event of a "no" would be that Mike would have emailed or PM'd Christopher direct. If Radvilla proved to be as attractive as Gražina seems to be then I for one would be very happy to admit to erring on the side of caution.  :)

Policing a boundary is never easy and almost always unpopular. As moderators we do try to do this in as gentle and concensus-based a way as we can. So, in that spirit, can I ask that we now move on, please?
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: mikehopf on Sunday 08 July 2018, 23:53
When all is said and done, Radvila turned out to be a most attractive romantic opera more like Moussorgsky and Dvorak than Szymanowski.

BTW, Christopher, I've got a complete recording of A. Kapp's oratorio "Job" if you want it.

Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 09 July 2018, 06:41
QuoteRadvila turned out to be a most attractive romantic opera more like Moussorgsky and Dvorak than Szymanowski
Well that's good. Did you record it?
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 09 July 2018, 11:52
The only (as far as I know) CD of Karnavicius's music has now been put up on the Pakartot streaming website which I referenced above.

https://www.pakartot.lt/album/jurgis-karnavicius/ulalume2 (https://www.pakartot.lt/album/jurgis-karnavicius/ulalume2)

I think people might especially enjoy the "Ulalume" Overture (after Edgar Allan Poe) - track 1 - very late-romantic in style (written 1917).   The other pieces are all chamber works, except track 11 "The Oval Portrait" Overture (also after Edgar Allan Poe) - though this is not as strong a work in my view (written 1927).
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 July 2018, 12:32
Is the CD available to purchase anywhere?
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 09 July 2018, 14:28
I know that the Lithuanian Music Information Centre (www.mic.lt (http://www.mic.lt)), which like Pakartot is also (quasi-)governmental, were once selling it.  And I bought mine second-hand on discogs.  But other than that I don't know anything about it. Mine is now in storage after I put the mp3 tracks on my itunes, otherwise I would offer to see if the booklet gives any more information.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 09 July 2018, 16:40
Thanks. The CD can be ordered here:
http://www.mic.lt/en/database/classical/find-works/7620/ (http://www.mic.lt/en/database/classical/find-works/7620/)
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 09 July 2018, 16:58
btw IMSLP has his 2 early string quartets in G minor (score) and D minor (parts).
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Linas on Tuesday 10 July 2018, 21:57
Hello all there. My name is Linas Paulauskis and I'm from Music Information Centre Lithuania (www.mic.lt). Thanks to Christopher for showing me this chat.

QuoteMaybe there has been a confusion re him and his son? The son has the same name and was born in 1912.

His son was not composer, but pianist and longtime rector of the Lithuanian State Conservatory (presently the Lithuanian Academy of Music and Theatre). Interestingly, his grandson is also a pianist, and his first name is Jurgis as well.

QuoteSomeone who wrote mellifluous, lyrical works in his youth could well be writing extremely spikey atonal music in his maturity.

Or does it happen more often the other way round? Think of Penderecki; even Arvo Pärt started from twelve-tone serialism. Speaking about Karnavicius, he didn't change his direction until the end of his life.

This discussion boosted some interest in the CD of Karnavicius' music, released by us. I only would like to warn those who will order or already ordered this CD: the English pronunciation of the singer who sings Six Romances to Percy Bysshe Shelley is sometimes awful. I personally didn't work with this CD, but my colleagues ended up in desperation: tell her whatever but prima donna knows better... sorry for that.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 10 July 2018, 22:39
Thanks, Linas - and welcome to Unsung Composers. This is a good place to post information about any romantic-era Lithuanian music, especially recordings.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Wednesday 11 July 2018, 11:42
Hello Linas - it's great that you have joined.  I'm glad to have introduced you.  People on here will be interested to hear of recordings, broadcasts and performances of Romantic and Late-Romantic Lithuanian composers that they may not have heard of, or not know very well.

I know that Latvia and Estonia also have music information centres (lmic.lv and emic.ee respectively) - do you have contacts or cooperation with them?  Perhaps they could also be persuaded to join and tell us about Romantic and Late-Romantic music coming out of their countries.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 17 July 2018, 22:18
The symphonic poem Ulalume is certainly an atmospheric piece, almost uniformly gloomy in tone - as befits its programme. Much more interesting, I think, than Karnavicius' opera Radvila.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 17 July 2018, 22:34
Mind you, the same gloom pervades the later symphonic poem The Oval Portrait, so there is a certain want of variety in evidence here.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 18 July 2018, 09:33
I'm afraid that I found them both dreary and devoid of much musical interest. On present evidence (these two symphonic poems and Radvila), Karnavicius wasn't a major talent.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 18 July 2018, 12:20
Agreed.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Thursday 19 July 2018, 12:28
Goodness me chaps, I think we've got the message.  Saying "agreed" really adds nothing, but I'll be surprised if Linas doesn't turn tail and run a mile from this Forum, which would be a shame.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 19 July 2018, 14:49
Well, that's his choice. We post as we find. And Karnavicius' music, in our opinion, just doesn't measure up. Nevertheless, it would be good to read a reasoned defence of his music.

Perhaps there are some other Lithuanian composers who have something to offer...
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 19 July 2018, 15:20
The cause of promoting unjustly neglected composers isn't served by praising those whose music is justly neglected. I'm not putting Karnavicius into that category because I haven't heard enough of his music to judge its overall quality, I just haven't been impressed by what I've heard so far. In any event I speak only for myself - Alan and I happen to agree in this case but there's no "party line" and views to the contrary are always welcome.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Martin Eastick on Thursday 19 July 2018, 15:41
Having just received my copy of this CD, I have tried to approach the music with an open mind, and I do try to find positives in any unsung repertoire, but this has left me stone cold - and indeed I could find nothing here that I would want to hear again unfortunately. I suppose that every now and again one comes across a real dud!...............
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: semloh on Sunday 22 July 2018, 02:46
Having been away with my grandson, I was sorry to return and find that the discussion on this thread had become rather disharmonious.

I have absolutely no ear for opera, cantatas, or similar works, so I didn't download some of the works that seem to have sparked some of the debate. However, when it comes to Lithuanian music generally, I find it enjoyable and fascinating - and, of course, one is always on the lookout for works that one feels are unjustly unsung! I must say that The Oval Portrait and Ulalume of Karnavicius are rather gloomy, but then they are "after Edgar Allen Poe" - not exactly a fund of jollity - so I have no problem with them. They do lack colour, but at times I could hear faint echoes of Bridge's wonderful Suite The Sea. Quite apart from Cui and Ciurlionis, and modern Lithuanian composers outside UC's remit, I really enjoy the works of Gruodis. Anybody with me on that?

And, I am grateful to everyone who uploads music to UC, even when it's opera!  ;D

Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 17 October 2022, 14:31
As we know, Ciurlionis was a painter as well as a composer.  There is currently an exhibition of his works at the Dulwich Picture Gallery:

https://www.dulwichpicturegallery.org.uk/whats-on/exhibitions/2022/september/mk-%C4%8Diurlionis-between-worlds/ (https://www.dulwichpicturegallery.org.uk/whats-on/exhibitions/2022/september/mk-%C4%8Diurlionis-between-worlds/)

M.K. Čiurlionis: Between Worlds

Discover Lithuania's best loved artist.

M.K. Čiurlionis: Between Worlds brings together over 100 works by the Lithuanian artist and celebrated composer Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis (1875-1911). Widely credited as Lithuania's greatest artist, the exhibition will feature paintings and drawings created throughout his short but prolific career, with most travelling to the UK for the first time.

M.K. Čiurlionis: Between Worlds will reveal how Čiurlionis used structure and colour to create works that travel between mythology and reality. The exhibition will highlight the breadth of Čiurlionis' interests, with a focus on humankind's relationship to the universe, and examine the themes and motifs that aligned his art to European Symbolism. Bringing together Čiurlionis' most accomplished masterpieces, including Creation of the World (1905/1906), The Zodiac (1906/1907) and Rex (1909), the Between Worlds exhibition will position him as a singular figure in the history of European art whose ethereal, and occasionally fantastical, works were precursors of abstract painting.

Čiurlionis left a profound imprint on Lithuanian culture and is among the country's most loved and famous historical figures – his paintings are widely reproduced and his music is often performed internationally.


(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F35056158-3996-4b1b-9d46-0062e8dcbfa9.png?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=1260)

And a review in the FT - https://www.ft.com/content/740602fc-5531-4124-9381-67926901a93d?shareType=nongift (https://www.ft.com/content/740602fc-5531-4124-9381-67926901a93d?shareType=nongift) -
MK Čiurlionis at Dulwich Picture Gallery: a spotlight on a Lithuanian artist-hero
Exploring nature and pagan mythology, he receives his first UK retrospective more than a century after his death - SEPTEMBER 22 2022
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 October 2022, 15:13
Thanks for this interesting notification, but let's confine ourselves from here on to discussion of his music.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Ilja on Monday 17 October 2022, 17:24
The thing is that with Ciurlionis, you can't really separate the two: music works cover images from his paintings, and vice versa. A rather unique case in that regard. And one of which I've grown rather fond.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 October 2022, 19:22
So, next time I listen to his music I've got to look at a painting of his? First time I've heard that! Next we'll be mandating light shows to accompany Scriabin...
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Christopher on Monday 17 October 2022, 19:57
If someone produced the paintings that inspired Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition I bet you'd have a look... I certainly would!
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Wheesht on Monday 17 October 2022, 20:05
If you decide to consider the music and only the music, then that is of course entirely up to you, even though, in the case of Čiurlionis, you might be disregarding the cross-influences of music and painting that contributed to who he was.
If who he was is of no interest and only the music counts, OK, but then that is surely equally true for all composers discussed on this forum. Taken to its logical(?) conclusion this would mean that we should not be interested in any biographical aspects such as nation, gender, upbringing etc.
In fact, blindfold tests a bit like the ones Leonard Feather did (https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/blindfold/about.html) with jazz musicians in Downbeat magazine could be really interesting for raising awareness of unsung composers' music and testing reactions...   
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 17 October 2022, 20:22
I think Alan was only concerned that the thread didn't branch off onto a consideration of Ciurlionis' paintings instead of making the music the main topic. Certainly, where the two aspects of his art are intertwined or interdependent then it would be appropriate to consider the painting, especially if it were to throw light on a specific composition, but we should be careful not to get sidetracked. (And, just by the by, I would be fascinated to attend a performance of Scriabin's "Prometheus" with the light keyboard that he envisioned. I don't know whether it would enhance my appreciation of the music, but then I can't know until I experience it!)
And as for Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition", I'm so tired of hearing that piece played over and over again on the radio that I would find it refreshing to look at the pictures WITHOUT the music.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 October 2022, 21:10
Gareth is right. I'm simply concerned that we discuss the music here and don't get sidetracked into debates on the other arts.
Title: Re: Lithuanian music
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 17 October 2022, 21:55
I agree, Gareth's put it very well.