Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: FBerwald on Saturday 05 June 2010, 09:04

Title: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: FBerwald on Saturday 05 June 2010, 09:04
While reading the reviews of Macdowell's Piano concerto, I came across the name of a composer who seems to have written 6 piano concertos "..under the influence of Rachmaninov..". The name is R Sacheverell Coke. I googled it to find only bits and pieces of info on this composer (Even his name is confusing... some list him as Richard, others Roger!!!) Has anyone heard any works by this composer........the aforementioned piano concertos?????
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: thalbergmad on Saturday 12 June 2010, 20:01
I understand only the 3rd concerto was published and by the composer himself. If memory serves, he was rather well off.

A couple of years ago I came across the score that the composer had signed himself and thankfully, i bought it. My sight reading is not the best, but to me it is in the Rachmaninov vein with a touch of Bowen.

No idea why this has not been recorded. Perhaps the people in charge of his estate are not interested.

Thal
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 12 June 2010, 23:16
If the music were available, Dutton would seem to be the perfect label...
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: thalbergmad on Sunday 13 June 2010, 00:01
It seems like he was the end of the family line.

Nice house.

     http://www.savills.co.uk/residentialsearch/propertydetail.aspx?pID=201608                                                                                             (http://www.savills.co.uk/residentialsearch/propertydetail.aspx?pID=201608)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: edurban on Sunday 13 June 2010, 00:09
Only 11 storage rooms.  Well, at least there's a place to keep scores, sheet music and cds...

Thanks, thalbergmad.  Quite a find, that.

David

Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 14 June 2010, 10:38
I have begun research on Roger Sacheverell Coke and hope to visit the Coke-Steel Archive at Chesterfield Library later this year. His sister, Betty Darwin, gave his MSS and music papers to Derbyshire County Records Office after his death in 1972. At that time the County Council was housed in Alfreton Hall. This was sold some years ago and, at that time, the Coke-Steel Archive was moved to Chesterfield Library where - like the Emanuel Moor Archive in Victoria Music Library - it has languished uncatalogued, because the money is not available to employ anyone to catalogue it. A typed list of its contents was made at the time of its being presented, though the librarian at Chesterfield believes this to be inaccurate. The only piano concertos listed are No 4 (MS Full Score & Parts); No. 5 - slow movt. only (MS Score & Parts); No. 3 - two-piano score only (published by Chappells at the composer's expense). The apparent absence of the full orchestral score of No. 3 is particularly upsetting, since it was clearly a work the composer rated highly, otherwise he would not have had the two-piano score published. The MS Full Score and parts of one of his 3 symphonies (Np. 2) is also listed. There is a VC in full score and full scores and parts of 2 vocal concertos; also all the orchestral and vocal material for his opera "The Cenci". I have been in touch with his cousin who is pretty certain that there is no other repository of his music. The loss of the symphonies and piano concerti is very dispiriting.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: ahinton on Monday 14 June 2010, 11:04
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 14 June 2010, 10:38
I have begun research on Roger Sacheverell Coke and hope to visit the Coke-Steel Archive at Chesterfield Library later this year. His sister, Betty Darwin, gave his MSS and music papers to Derbyshire County Records Office after his death in 1972. At that time the County Council was housed in Alfreton Hall. This was sold some years ago and, at that time, the Coke-Steel Archive was moved to Chesterfield Library where - like the Emanuel Moor Archive in Victoria Music Library - it has languished uncatalogued, because the money is not available to employ anyone to catalogue it. A typed list of its contents was made at the time of its being presented, though the librarian at Chesterfield believes this to be inaccurate. The only piano concertos listed are No 4 (MS Full Score & Parts); No. 5 - slow movt. only (MS Score & Parts); No. 3 - two-piano score only (published by Chappells at the composer's expense). The apparent absence of the full orchestral score of No. 3 is particularly upsetting, since it was clearly a work the composer rated highly, otherwise he would not have had the two-piano score published. The MS Full Score and parts of one of his 3 symphonies (Np. 2) is also listed. There is a VC in full score and full scores and parts of 2 vocal concertos; also all the orchestral and vocal material for his opera "The Cenci". I have been in touch with his cousin who is pretty certain that there is no other repository of his music. The loss of the symphonies and piano concerti is very dispiriting.
All most interesting; never assume, however, that "loss" in such instances necessarily means "loss" - I have found from time to time that all manner of things turn up, sometimes in the least expected places and when one least expects them to do so! If, for example, anyone here is prepared to own up to ownership of Sorabji's Toccata III for piano, I'd be most interested...
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: thalbergmad on Monday 14 June 2010, 12:00
Yep, I have got it. Give us a crate of Stella and its yours.

Well done to Gareth for his investigations. He is the Sherlock of the Score World.

Back to the composer, I have read on another Forum that Coke visited Rachmaninov at Lucerne and Rachmaninov visited Coke at his place. From what I read the appreciation was not mutual and Rachmaninov did not care for his works. No idea if this is true or what indeed Rach heard.

Thal

Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 14 June 2010, 14:45
Thanks for the encouragement, Alistair. One lives in hope...
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 14 June 2010, 18:16
QuoteBack to the composer, I have read on another Forum that Coke visited Rachmaninov at Lucerne and Rachmaninov visited Coke at his place. From what I read the appreciation was not mutual and Rachmaninov did not care for his works. No idea if this is true or what indeed Rach heard.

What forum was that, please? That's interesting. I didn't know Coke and Rachmaninov had met.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 14 June 2010, 19:37
I found this reference to their meeting on another forum:
Rachmaninov was a profoundly religious man, apparently. His great friend was that superb pianist Benno Moiseiwitsch, though they did not meet often because of their tight schedules. Several English composers have been labeled as being 'the English Rachmaninov' but the one most influenced by him was Roger Sacheverell Coke, 1912-1972. Coke was Lord of the Manor of Pinxton. He visited the great composer at his summer home on Lake Lucerne in the 'thirties, and Rach visited him at his home, Brookhill Hall, on at least one occasion when he was over in England giving recitals. Coke played his own Piano Sonata No.2, G major, Op.26 to the Maestro, but Rach was less than impressed. I have a copy of this and much else by R.S. Coke. He was certainly a great devotee of Rachmaninov's music and this is often reflected in his piano writing which is never anything other than difficult.
http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16529.0 (http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16529.0)

I also found this reference:
The village has been associated with the Coke family since 1558 when Richard Coke married Mary Sacheverel of Kirkby Old Hall. This Tudor Manor House was demolished in 1963. The Rev D´Ewes Coke moved into Brookhill Hall in 1771 and the family lived there until the last lord of the manor, Roger Sacheverell Coke died in 1972. Roger Coke was a talented composer and a friend of Rachmaninov, who visited the Hall.
http://www.mail-archive.com/nottsgen-l@rootsweb.com/msg04249.html (http://www.mail-archive.com/nottsgen-l@rootsweb.com/msg04249.html)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: thalbergmad on Monday 14 June 2010, 21:23
Indeed that is the quote I was referring to.

Definately worth investigating this chap.

Thal
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: JimL on Tuesday 15 June 2010, 00:13
And worth pondering over other possible repositories of his scores! :D
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 18 June 2010, 20:30
I'm sure we all look forward to the results of your research Gareth. If the results are,in an way, positive,maybe it would be possible to get Hyperion or Chandos interested. His name seems to pop up in reviews of York Bowen,and similair fare on Musicweb now and again. It is terrible,how these scores get mislaid. But this is what happens,I suppose,when fashions change & people lose interest.
Have these works been performed in public? If so,where,and by whom? It is interesting that he was referred to as the English Rachmaninov. York Bowen apears to be the current contender. If Coke's works were available,and of similair quality,they might have the same level of appeal. What a pity.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 16 October 2011, 04:02
Maybe it's worth performing the 3rd concerto as a 2-piano score (I see there's a copy at the LoC and no doubt elsewhere and someone mentioned having a copy) - even if a conjectural orchestral reconstruction would be folly, it might possibly be worthwhile? Just itself conjecture on my part. (Or MIDI?)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: albion on Monday 17 October 2011, 20:32
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 16 October 2011, 04:02Maybe it's worth performing the 3rd concerto as a 2-piano score

Why not? Piano reductions are often a good way to get a taste (if not the full flavour) of what the composer intended, Rufinatscha's 4th Symphony being a prime example!

(http://www.tiroler-landesmuseen.at/shop/userupload/1313_11021_main.jpg)

I really hope that something comes of Gareth's investigations and before too long we might have the opportunity to hear some of this music.

;)

Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 17 October 2011, 22:14
Or ask Schumann re Berlioz/Liszt. :) (before the split.)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 22 October 2011, 09:26
I have a number of copies of the printed 2-piano score of the 3rd PC, and have just given one to Michael Laus, the conductor of the Malta Philharmonic Orchestra and a distinguished pianist in his own right.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 22 October 2011, 12:24
Excellent work, Gareth. That's the way to do it!
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Franz von Blon on Sunday 27 November 2011, 22:55
I happened upon this forum while doing a search on Sacheverell Coke.
The website of the Dartford Symphony Orchestra shows that he played his own Concerto in E flat with them in June 1957. Does anybody know if this is the one that was published?
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 28 November 2011, 12:11
Yes, that's the one. It's very upsetting that the Full Score and parts are missing.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 November 2011, 12:39
Good username, sir :)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Simon Wassermann on Tuesday 21 August 2012, 10:33
I have just discovered this blog while searching for information about R.S. Coke. My interest arose from hearing a cello sonata of his on Radio 3, almost certainly during the 1980s. His affinity with Rachmaninov was mentioned by the presenter and there was one tune that was certainly reminiscent of of SR. I don't recall the performers, nor have I heard it, or anything else, by Coke since. Indeed before finding this thread I could find very little about him. How would one get hold of the score of the cello sonata, or indeed any of his other works?
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 05:04
He wrote at least two cello sonatas, Opus 24 in D minor (1935-6?) and Opus 29 in C. They were published in 1972 by Chappell and  by Chappell and Lowe & Brydone respectively, and the British Library (St. Pancras) and Northwestern University (Evanston, Illinois) (and also St. Pancras) have copies. The Library of Congress, Washington, DC has copies also. Not sure who else does alas.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 09:51
He wrote 3 complete and extant Cello Sonatas, the 3rd remaining in MS. The costs of publishing were covered by the composer and if you approach Chappell's now and ask about Coke's music, they have no record of ever having published him - and give the impression that they don't much care either! I have copies of them all and have already written to Mr Wassermann offering to make photocopies for him if he wishes.  Curiously, Coke published only the scores of the first 2 Cello Sonatas - no cello parts were published (which strikes me as odd - the score alone is not much use to a cellist interested in performing the work).
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 14:04
Very encouraging, Gareth. What's your estimate of the pieces you have seen?
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 14:10
If it's a good, readable and not too ambiguous (there's always some editing to be done with even with a number of published scores...) score, someone with experience with typesetting software and time can part-extract the cello-part, but you're right.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 16:12
I like both the printed cello sonatas, Alan - quirky but lyrical. I haven't had a good look at No. 3 yet.

You're right, Eric, it should be quite an easy job to extract the cello part from the scores - and, in fact, I'm doing that with No. 2. I'm using it as a learning exercise for "Sibelius". Our local performing arts library in Yeovil has Sibelius Version 5 - it costs nothing to book time at the desk and hardly anyone seems to use it. Once I've got the basic hang of it I may invest in Sibelius Version 7 myself (it's a relatively modest £380 at Amazon, so the cost has decreased substantially from when it launched at over £700).
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 22 August 2012, 16:25
Do keep us updated, Gareth.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: dafrieze on Thursday 06 April 2017, 19:00
Simon Callaghan has recorded some piano pieces by Coke: https://www.amazon.com/Roger-Sacheverell-Coke-Preludes-Variations/dp/B00V872K5W.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 06 April 2017, 20:14
Please see this thread:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5578.msg58634.html#msg58634 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5578.msg58634.html#msg58634)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 13 April 2017, 07:02
has anyone mentioned the still newish Radio 3 broadcast of concerto 4? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kyl2d (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kyl2d).
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 13 April 2017, 20:28
Just heard it. I was away in the US when it was broadcast. I wouldn't have known if you hadn't posted, Eric. It's terrific. Wonderful to hear all that orchestral colour and - as I've always maintained - a distinctive voice of his own. Ok, there's a bit of Scriabin there, but much more of Coke. It's fascinating stuff. I was the one who got hold of all the scores from Christopher Darwin's attic. So glad he kept them - and a good thing he kept them in the dark too as they were not originals but old-fashioned "negative" photocopies (white on black), which, of course, fade completely if left in the light. The only full score of the 3rd PC, which has a bit more of Rachmaninov about it, was somewhere in the middle of the full score of his opera "The Cenci".
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 13 April 2017, 22:27
How absolutely fascinating. One thirsts for more...
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: badams@nl.rogers.com on Friday 14 April 2017, 02:18
At the risk of rather blatantly going off topic, does anybody know of any symphonic compositions of Coke, and whether or not there are any adventurous conductors out there who might have an interest in exhuming them?

Brian
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 14 April 2017, 07:27
Thanks for the link, Eric, this broadcast had gone under my radar too.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 14 April 2017, 09:58
One symphony (the 2nd) out of 3 remains extant. There are two tone poems (The Lotos Eaters and Elegiac Ballade), the overture to "The Cenci" and three pieces for string orchestra; plus two "vocal concertos" for soprano and orchestra. The solo part in these is not wordless (like the Gliere concerto) but is set to texts. There is also the Elegy for a Dead Musician for contralto, violin and orchestra and a "Poem" for cello and small orchestra.
Among the orchestral MSS listed as existing at his death are a further tone poem, "Dorian Gray", the third symphony and the complete 5th piano concerto (only the slow movt. remains). Very sadly, none of these can be found.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 14 April 2017, 10:48
I've posted a recording of the BBC broadcast in our Downloads Board here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6453.msg68190.html#new). When the Hyperion recording is imminent I'll delete it, assuming it's the same performance.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 14 April 2017, 13:52
The first vocal concerto was published (in reduced vocal score format) as his Op.25 in 1970 by Chappell. ("First vocal concerto : 3 extracts from Tennyson's "The Princess" : op.25" (soprano and piano)). Trinity College Library Dublin and St. Pancras branch of the British Library have a reduced score (published by the composer, 1970) of the poem for cello, Op.36 (reduced for cello and 2 pianos.) The aforementioned prelude to The Cenci : opera in 3 acts, op. 41* can be found in a 20-page manuscript @ U. Sheffield. (This all from Worldcat. There are probably better less generic sources I should be consulting. Even the brief list @ Worldcat does also list some songs, preludes and cello sonatas and a few piano concertos though the libraries carrying the latter may only have reductions too.
I'll make an effort to hear more of his music myself.

Thanks also!)

*That's three composers- Brian, Goldschmidt, Coke- who've set The Cenci to music. That I can think of... :)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 14 April 2017, 18:41
Those publications of Coke's works by Chappell, were funded by the composer himself and when I contacted Chappell some years ago, they denied all knowledge of them or the composer!!! Sadly, I was not surprised.
I have copies of all the Chappell published scores, fortunately.
Good to know that A MSS copy of the overture to "The Cenci" is in Sheffield.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 15 April 2017, 18:34
My reaction to PC4 concerns its pervasive and often rather dark chromaticism. There's no doubt that it's a fascinating piece, but I just wonder whether in the end it's all rather self-defeating. I just wanted the clouds to lift once in a while...
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 15 April 2017, 23:28
But they do, they do. Shafts of intermittent light pervade the gloom and the final bars are like a glorious sunset.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 15 April 2017, 23:53
Rather too late, I thought. But I must persist - after all, I'm not really familiar with his idiom.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: jimsemadeni on Sunday 16 April 2017, 02:07
After repeated hearings I remain underwhelmed, it is beautifully played and pretty from moment to moment but didn't leave me with a great need to continue the effort or begging for more. Oh, well, not the first time...I remember anxiously awaiting the Urspruch, then wondering if he would ever reach the end of the first movement.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 16 April 2017, 08:39
I'm afraid I'm not convinced either - yet.
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 16 April 2017, 13:01
I think you would both find the 3rd PC more approachable. I don't think Coke's music is an easy ride - but I believe it repays study. I firmly believe he is a major voice among British composers. And one could not find a better champion than Simon Callaghan. (Doubtless you will have noticed the allusion in the opening them to Rachmaninov's 3rd PC.)
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 16 April 2017, 21:22
QuoteThat's three composers- Brian, Goldschmidt, Coke- who've set The Cenci to music. That I can think of.

Rozycki did an opera too - Beatrix Cenci, Op. 53
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: badams@nl.rogers.com on Monday 17 April 2017, 00:35
Thanks for that, Gareth.  Is there any sign of anyone taking an interest in the second symphony?

Brian
Title: Re: Sacheverell Coke
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 17 April 2017, 05:55
Ah. Thanks. And I see in Worldcat another by a very well-known Argentinian modern composer, his Op.38 from 1971 (and the result when one looks for the name in Wikipedia with no qualifiers, I see, and maybe some of the others are just called "The Cenci" after the original 1819 play (or "Beatrice Cenci" like Guido Pannain's opera.)

Anyhow. Sorry.

Was the Goossens-conducted recording of Coke's Cenci recorded by anyone (privately etc)?