Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Kriton on Saturday 05 June 2010, 21:02

Title: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Kriton on Saturday 05 June 2010, 21:02
I LOVE them! Unfortunately, I don't know that many. Of course there are the famous examples by Chopin and Saint-Saens, and there's a fun Franck disc on Naxos including his endearing piano concerto. The Ballade by Fauré is played every now and again, but I must admit to liking his later Fantasy much better! Hyperion gave us all of Pierné's works for piano & orchestra, and those by Hahn & Massenet, and both aforementioned labels did Alkan. The only other piece I can think of, that is fairly well-known, is the Symphonie with piano by D'Indy.

The rest of the works I know are the 1-movement works by Vierne, Le Flem, D'Ollone, and Chaminade, and the concertos by Cras and Lalo.

And then I'm stretching it with mentioning:
- Boieldieu (hardly romantic...)
- Schmitt (a quasi-romantic Symphonie Concertante)
- Debussy's Fantasy (which is actually a concerto in all but name, and in my opinion very romantic - unlike those noisy pieces by Ravel)
- Biarent's Rhapsody (which is actually a concerto as well - but its composer isn't really French)

I've seen Hyperion will be doing both Widor concertos - I can hardly wait! But, in all, that's hardly 20 composers of romantic French works for piano & orchestra, against a tidal wave of german-austrian and anglo-american works. Looking at the form of most of them, it's rather obvious the French wanted to compose as un-germanic as possible, although Wagner's influence of course haunted them until the early 20th century.

But, I was wondering if any of you could recommend to me further works consistent with the title of the topic. Would be nice if recordings exist. I think I've read about concertos by Castillon and Diémer once, but have yet to find a score or recording.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 05 June 2010, 22:09
There are also the two concertos by Godard - I believe a recording may be being planned by Hyperion...

The Castillon concerto can be picked up used at Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/Castillon-Piano-Concerto-Esquisses-Symphoniques/dp/B000005GPH/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1275772561&sr=1-10 (http://www.amazon.com/Castillon-Piano-Concerto-Esquisses-Symphoniques/dp/B000005GPH/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1275772561&sr=1-10)
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Kriton on Saturday 05 June 2010, 22:25
LOL, that's some revelation: recorded by Ciccolini, no less - and I'd never heard of the recording! Thanks, Alan, I will try and see if there's a copy somewhere in Europe, since I can't order from the american Amazon.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: JimL on Saturday 05 June 2010, 23:38
There was some discussion about this on the defunct Forum.  Ferdinand Herold (the composer of Zampa) composed two piano concertos which have never been recorded.  They may be lost, but apparently there were plans to record them some years back.  Unfortunately, there was a recording done of Herold's symphonies, and the works were judged to be so weak musically that the concerto project was scrapped.  Or so the story goes, IIRC.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 06 June 2010, 03:53
Quote from: Kriton on Saturday 05 June 2010, 22:25
LOL, that's some revelation: recorded by Ciccolini, no less - and I'd never heard of the recording! Thanks, Alan, I will try and see if there's a copy somewhere in Europe, since I can't order from the american Amazon.

Trouble is, there's no copy to be had at a reasonable price in Europe. The best thing to do would be to contact the Amazon US seller and request an amendment of the shipping arrangements to include 'International Shipping'. I have made this request before and found that sellers are usually very obliging...
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 06 June 2010, 04:19
Quote from: JimL on Saturday 05 June 2010, 23:38
There was some discussion about this on the defunct Forum.  Ferdinand Herold (the composer of Zampa) composed two piano concertos which have never been recorded.  They may be lost, but apparently there were plans to record them some years back.  Unfortunately, there was a recording done of Herold's symphonies, and the works were judged to be so weak musically that the concerto project was scrapped.  Or so the story goes, IIRC.

http://piano-concertos.org/h.html (http://piano-concertos.org/h.html) lists 4 piano concertos by Herold, but I don't know the source for either claim...
Eric
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: TerraEpon on Sunday 06 June 2010, 06:56
As far as Debussy goes, there's Printemps, which in the traditional orchestration by Basser is for two pianos and orchestra. It's 'true' form is orchestra with wordless chorus though.

And adding Chopin to the list makes about as much sense as adding Liszt...

(And it's one of those times I'm almost sure I'm missing something)
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Syrelius on Sunday 06 June 2010, 14:04
Quote from: Kriton on Saturday 05 June 2010, 22:25
LOL, that's some revelation: recorded by Ciccolini, no less - and I'd never heard of the recording! Thanks, Alan, I will try and see if there's a copy somewhere in Europe, since I can't order from the american Amazon.

The Castillon disc is a wonderful CD -  not only the concerto, but also the Esquisses Symphoniques. If you find it at a reasonable price - buy it!
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Kriton on Sunday 06 June 2010, 14:06
Quote from: TerraEpon on Sunday 06 June 2010, 06:56
As far as Debussy goes, there's Printemps, which in the traditional orchestration by Basser is for two pianos and orchestra. It's 'true' form is orchestra with wordless chorus though.
The former I did not know! Do you know of a recordings of this?

Quote from: TerraEpon on Sunday 06 June 2010, 06:56
And adding Chopin to the list makes about as much sense as adding Liszt...

(And it's one of those times I'm almost sure I'm missing something)
Yes, Liszt spent time in Paris, but he considered himself to be Hungarian, what's more, I think he wasn't of French descent. But, I may have a vague idea of what you perhaps might be missing; actually, adding Chopin and Boieldieu to list might make no sense whatsoever: the latter composed in a time when nation states where not yet invented, and Chopin, although being a 'nationalist', might have considered himself more of a Pole. In any case, his works for piano & orchestra stand in the European, not specifically country-bound tradition of the Viennese classics, Hummel, Field, etc.

But for leaving those out, I can add Castillon, Godard, and Hérold!

'Did' the Schmitt Symphonie concertante again, yesterday. Reading through my post, I could understand that some people could find it more 'noisy' than the Ravel concertos. But is has beautiful lyrical moments, and its alleged modernism can't scare me off. I can really recommend it! But not as a first contact...
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Gooseguy on Sunday 06 June 2010, 16:17
There is a Vox Box listed on American Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/French-Piano-Concertos-Francois-Adrien-Boieldieu/dp/B000001K4E

You may already be aware of this, if so sorry - if not it does contain the Lalo and Chaminade works, which meet your criteria:

French Piano Concertos [Original recording remastered][Box set]
On this CD:
Concerto in F for piano & orchestra
Composed by Francois-Adrien Boieldieu
Performed by Innsbruck Symphony Orchestra
with Martin Galling
Conducted by Robert Wagner


Piano Concerto in E flat major
Composed by Jules Massenet
Performed by Westphalian Symphony Orchestra
with Marylene Dosse
Conducted by Siegfried Landau


Piano Concerto in C minor, Op. 42
Composed by Gabriel Pierne
Performed by Stuttgart Philharmonic Orchestra
with Marylene Dosse
Conducted by Matthias Kuntzsch


Piano Concerto in F minor
Composed by Edouard Lalo
Performed by Stuttgart Philharmonic Orchestra
with Marylene Dosse
Conducted by Matthias Kuntzsch


Concertstück for piano and Orchestra, Op 40
Composed by Cecile Chaminade
Performed by Luxembourg Radio Orchestra
with Rosario Marciano
Conducted by Louis de Froment


Concerto for piano & orchestra in G major, Op 36
Composed by Albert Roussel
Performed by Hamburger Symphoniker
with Maria Littauer
Conducted by Alois Springer


Concerto for piano & orchestra
Composed by Jean Francaix
Performed by Luxembourg Radio Orchestra
with Claude Paillard-Francaix
Conducted by Jean Francaix


Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Gooseguy on Sunday 06 June 2010, 16:38
There is also an interesting if somewhat episodic Piano Concerto by Jean Cras (1879-1932) available on the Timpani label (TIMPANI 2C2037).  It may be little more modern than most of the works you list, but I think you will find it very accessible, as with his other compositions.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: TerraEpon on Sunday 06 June 2010, 21:04
Quote from: Kriton on Sunday 06 June 2010, 14:06
The former I did not know! Do you know of a recordings of this?

Which? The two piano one has been recorded a number of times. The one with Martinon conduction is easy enough to get in various guises. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=2887&name_role1=1&comp_id=24630&genre=55&bcorder=195
As far as I know, all except the very first one are the two piano and orchestra one. The top is the wordless chorus and two piano version that Basser used to make his orchestration.
There's a recording of a reconstruction of the original (either lost or never completed) on a disc called "Debussy Rediscovered" which also has some other neat orchestrations. I guess it's OOP though, unfortunately.

Quote from: Kriton on Sunday 06 June 2010, 14:06
Yes, Liszt spent time in Paris, but he considered himself to be Hungarian, what's more, I think he wasn't of French descent. But, I may have a vague idea of what you perhaps might be missing; actually, adding Chopin and Boieldieu to list might make no sense whatsoever: the latter composed in a time when nation states where not yet invented, and Chopin, although being a 'nationalist', might have considered himself more of a Pole. In any case, his works for piano & orchestra stand in the European, not specifically country-bound tradition of the Viennese classics, Hummel, Field, etc.

Actually when I said I was 'missing something' I meant there's a piece or two I was surely forgetting about.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: FBerwald on Sunday 06 June 2010, 21:41
Quote from: Gooseguy on Sunday 06 June 2010, 16:38
There is also an interesting if somewhat episodic Piano Concerto by Jean Cras (1879-1932) available on the Timpani label (TIMPANI 2C2037).  It may be little more modern than most of the works you list, but I think you will find it very accessible, as with his other compositions.

The Jean Crass Concerto is very interesting.
I would add the Piano concerto in E flat Major by Leo(or Stanislao) Silesu - Absolutely charming work!!!!


PS: I hope Hyperion finalises the Godard concertos!!!!
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Rob H on Monday 07 June 2010, 09:24
Quote from: FBerwald on Sunday 06 June 2010, 21:41

PS: I hope Hyperion finalises the Godard concertos!!!!

Yes, absolutely agree - I'm surprised these have never been recorded. Hopefully if they do get around to them they will also include the Introduction and Allegro op49 and the Persian fantaisie op152.

I'd also like to hear the Ravina concertos or the Prudent Concertos - I seem to remember Howard Shelley saying that he was doing at least one of the Prudent. Haven't seen any sign of it - has anyone else heard any news?
Rob
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Kriton on Monday 07 June 2010, 09:33
Gooseguy, thanks for the suggestions, I do own the Vox set as well as the Cras concerto, and I must say I wouldn't call the latter modern - more rather 'individual', like all the rest of his music. For me, in that respect Cras composed somewhat like Fauré: in an instantly recognisable musical language, of which it would be hard to compare it with anything else. Beautiful it is, though, and suberbly orchestrated.

Quote from: FBerwald on Sunday 06 June 2010, 21:41
I would add the Piano concerto in E flat Major by Leo(or Stanislao) Silesu - Absolutely charming work!!!!
That sounds very interesting! Can you tell me anything about this piece? I must admit, I've never heard of the composer - his name sounds Eastern European to me...
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: FBerwald on Monday 07 June 2010, 12:46
Quote from: Kriton on Monday 07 June 2010, 09:33

Quote from: FBerwald on Sunday 06 June 2010, 21:41
I would add the Piano concerto in E flat Major by Leo(or Stanislao) Silesu - Absolutely charming work!!!!
That sounds very interesting! Can you tell me anything about this piece? I must admit, I've never heard of the composer - his name sounds Eastern European to me...

Lao (born Stanislao) Silesu (1883-1953) was a Sardinian ..(Sardinian by birth but Parisian by adoption) who wrote more than 600 compositions, most of them songs. The Piano Concerto in E flat Major (1929) is a wonderful amalgamation of Selim Palmgren and Debussy.

I know its been mentioned before but I simply cant help but add Reynaldo Hahn's Piano concerto to this list (I absolutely LOVE this one!!!)



Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: thalbergmad on Saturday 12 June 2010, 19:50
There are a couple of Concertstuck's by Pugno & Diemer and a couple of Fantasie's by Dumas and Duvernoy, but i have not studied them.

If they have not been recorded, the works for piano and orchestra by Theodore Dubois would be ideal candidates, especially the tuneful Suite.

Perhaps the best candidate for a "modern" recording would be the Concerto Italian by Louis Abbiate. I know he was born in Monaco, but i think it was under French control when he was born. This is full blown romanticism.

Herold perhaps a liitle lightweight, but i can imagine either of the Prudent works being effective, especially the first.

Thal

Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: thalbergmad on Saturday 12 June 2010, 23:23
Gradually rotting away in my loft is the Rapsodie Basque by Charles Bordes.

Hinsons guide tells us that it is based on Basque tunes. Could not comment on this as I don't know any Basque tunes, but it has a dance like feel to it.

Not much by Bordes appears to have been recorded apart from some songs and chamber music.

Thal
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: gentile on Sunday 13 June 2010, 14:43
Before this thread dies out because of the sheer lack of recorded works, let's try to exhaust the subject.
For the sake of completeness I would mention the piano concerto by Henri Collet (1885-1951), the famous Parisian critic (the one that coined the name "Les Six" for the group of composers around Cocteau). As some of his countrymen, he became fascinated with Spanish folklore. He came to Spain to study the culture in depth and composed a Concerto Flamenco (i.e. Flamingo Concerto) for piano and orchestra. This has been issued in CD by the label Claves (CD 50-9801) together with a similar one for violin and orchestra and an Alhambra symphony. I do not recommend this work. First, because it doesn't sound French at all and, most important, because Collet uses popular rhythms and tunes without much elaboration, in a way that sounds quite provincial (at least to my Spanish ears).
So, instead of a French concerto that sounds Spanish, let me go the other way round and introduce you a Spanish concerto that sounds French. I am referring to the piano concerto of one Antonio (or Antoni) Torrandell (1881-1965), a native of the Spanish island of Majorca who went to the Schola Cantorum in Paris to study with Charles Tournemire. Shortly after returning to Spain he composed the piano concerto in B minor. It is a work of symphonic proportions that sounds as if Tournemire had composed it himself. Well, perhaps it has a certain sunny Mediterranean touch (as if Tournemire had spent summer vacations in Mallorca) but is certainly a lovely work. It has been issued in a locally subsidized CD coupled with Torrandell's Symphony No.1 for violin and orchestra (in fact a Concerto Symphonique for violin) which is also an interesting work in the same style. The recording has had a very limited distribution but still can be found at the following website:
http://www.onadigital.com/botiga/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=147&category_id=6&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32 (http://www.onadigital.com/botiga/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=147&category_id=6&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32)
I guess that some excerpts of the works can be heard at this URL but they are not working for me (probably because some setup problem in my computer).
Please forgive me for sneaking in a non-French work in this thread but I think that this could be real find for those of you who like to discover little gems from obscure composers.

Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: chill319 on Sunday 13 June 2010, 16:01
In the spirit of exhausting the subject, I recalled the list of recorded concerted piano works compiled by Allan Ho, a forum member. (I'm guessing 'recorded' often means off-the-air tapes.) If one sets a time frame of 1800-1914 (WWI) [extended to the 1920s in four cases] and limits composers to unsungs who composed in France, the Allan's list filters down to what follows. Some overlaps with composers mentioned above, of course, but other works, too:

Alkan [Morhange], (Charles-)Valentin (1813-88) France
§Concerto, Op. 39 (orig. for solo piano, 1857; first movement alone arr. for piano and
orchestra by Karl Klindworth, 1872/1902)
§Concerto da camera No. 1 in a, Op. 10 (premiered 1832)
§Concerto da camera No. 2 in c-sharp for Piano and Strings (1833)
§Concerto da camera No. 3 (1833) [published for piano solo in 1837 as Andante
romantique No. 2, Op. 13] (original string parts lost; reconstructedby Hugh
Macdonald, 1995)
§Rondo brillant for Piano and Strings (orig. Quartet), Op. 4 (c.1833)

Aubert, Louis (François Marie) (1877-1968) France
**Fantaisie in b, Op. 8 (1899)

Beriot, Charles Wilfried (1833-1914) France/Belgium
**Concerto No. 2 in c, Op. 46 (1881)

Bonis, Mel [Mélanie] (1858-1937) France
**Septet for 2 Violins, Viola, Cello, Piano, and 2 Flutes

Bordes, Charles (1863-1909) France
Rapsodie Basque, Op. 9 (1889)

Boulanger, Nadia (1887-1979) France

**Fantaisie variée in c (1912)

Castillon (de Saint-Victor), (Marie-)Alexis [Vicomte de] (1838-73) France
§Concerto in D, Op. 12 (1871)

Chaminade, Cécile (Louise Stéphanie) (1857-1944) France
**Concerto "Autumn" (arr. Semprini)
§Concertstück in c-sharp, Op. 40 (1893)

Chausson, (Amédée-)Ernest (1855-99) France
§Concerto for Piano, Violin, and String Orchestra, Op. 21 (1889-91; orig. for piano,
violin, and string quartet)
+Concerto for Piano, Violin, and String Orchestra, Op. 21 (1889-91; orig. for piano,
violin, and string quartet, arr. by Dmitry Sitkovetsky)

Dumas, Louis (1877-1952) France
**Fantaisie (1908)

Dupré, Marcel (1886-1971) France
**Fantaisie in b, Op. 8 (1912)

Emmanuel, Maurice (1862-1938) France
**Zingaresca for 2 Pianos, 2 Piccolos, Timpani, and Strings, Op. 17 (1902)

Filtsch, Carl (1830-45) Transylvania/Austria/France
+Konzertstück (1844)

Gédalge, André (1856-1926) France
**Concerto in c/C, Op. 16 (1899)

Godard, Benjamin (Louis Paul) (1849-95) France
**Beceuse
§Concerto No. 1 in a/A, Op. 31 (1870)
§Concerto No. 2 in g/G, Op. 148 (1899)
§Fantaisie persanne, Op. 152
§Introduction et Allegro, Op. 49 (1881)
**Village Wedding

Gounod, Charles (François) (1818-93) France
*Fantaisie sur l'hymne national russe for [Pedal] Piano and Orchestra (1886)
**Suite concertante in A for Pedal Piano and Orchestra (1888)

Hahn, Reynaldo (1875-1947) Venezuela/France
+Le bal de Béatrice d'Este for Winds, 2 Harps, and Piano (1909)

Heller, Stephen [István] (1813-88) Hungary/France
**Tarantella No. 2, Op. 85 (1854) [guessing this must be an arrangement by someone else--CH]

Hérold, (Louis Joseph) Ferdinand (1791-1833) France
**Caprice for Piano and String Orchestra, Op. 8 (c.1817; orig. for piano quintet;
reconstructed by Frederick Robert)

Herz, Henri [Heinrich] (1803-88) Austria/France
+Concerto No. 1 in A, Op. 34 (1828)
§Concerto No. 3 in D minor, Op. 87 (1835)
§Concerto No. 4 in E major, Op. 131 (1843)
§Concerto No. 5 in F minor, Op. 180 (1854)
+Concerto No. 7 in b, Op. 207 (1864; publ. 1890s)
+Concerto No. 8 in A-flat, Op. 218 (1873)

d'Indy, (Paul Marie Théodore) Vincent (1851-1931) France
§Concert in E-flat for Piano, Flute, Cello, and String Orchestra, Op. 89 (1926)

Jadin, Hyacinthe (1776-1800) France
+Concerto No. 2 in d (publ. posth., 1803)
+Concerto No. 3 in A (1800)

Koechlin, Charles (Louis Eugène) (1867-1950) France
§Ballade, Op. 50 (1911-15; orchestrated 1919; recast from an earlier symphonic poem
La Forêt, 1897-1907)
+Berceuse phoque for Chorus, Orchestra, and Piano (from Trois Poèmes, Op. 18, of
the Jungle Book)

Lalo, Edouard(-Victoire-Antoine) (1823-92) France
§Concerto in f (1888-89)

Le Flem, Paul (1881-1984) France
§Fantaisie (1911)

Massenet, Jules (Emile Frédéric) (1842-1912) France
§Concerto in E-flat (1902-3; earliest sketches 1863-65)

Neukomm, Sigismund von (1778-1858) Austria/United Kingdom/France
+Grande Concerto in C, Op. 12

Ollone, Max d' (1875-1959) France
+Fantaisie (1897)

Paray, Paul (M. A. Charles) (1886-1979) France
§Fantaisie in c-sharp (1909)

Pierné, (Henri Constant) Gabriel (1863-1937) France
§Concerto in c, Op. 12 (1887)
**Concertstück, Op. 39 (1903; orig. for harp and orchestra)
§Fantaisie-ballet in B-flat, Op. 6 (1885)
§Poème symphonique in d, Op. 37 (1903)
§Scherzo-caprice in D, Op. 25 (1890)

Pleyel, Ignace Joseph [Ignaz Josef] (1757-1831) Austria/France
§Symphonie concertante [No. 2] in F for Violin, Piano, and Orchestra, B. 115 (1802 or 1805)

Riegel, Henri Jean (1772-1852) France
**Concerto No. 4 in E-flat, Op. 28

Roussel, Albert (Charles Paul Marie) (1869-1937) France
§Concerto in G[C], Op. 36 (1927)

Vierne, Louis (1870-1937) France
§Poème, Op. 50 (1925)

Widor, Charles-Marie(-Jean-Albert) (1844-1937) France
**Concerto No. 1 in f, Op. 39 (1876)
§Fantaisie in A-flat, Op. 62 (1889)

Witkowski, Georges (Martin) (1867-1943) France
**Mon lac: prélude, variations et finale (1921)

Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: thalbergmad on Sunday 13 June 2010, 16:29
The Koechlin Ballade is a spellbinding work that leaves one in a dreamlike state.

Can be played solo as well if memory serves. Excellent composition.

Thal

Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: ahinton on Sunday 13 June 2010, 17:45
Quote from: chill319 on Sunday 13 June 2010, 16:01
Boulanger, Nadia (1857-1979) France
**Fantaisie variée in c (1912)
All fascinating material, but I think that your dates for NB are somewhat optimistic (should read 1887-1979 - still a long life, for all that, even if not quite that of le Flem or of her one-time student Elliott Carter)...

Best,

Alistair
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 13 June 2010, 18:32
If I recall, the Vierne has indeed been recorded commercially, with his symphony. There was a topic about this briefly in this forum, now that I look. I've only heard the symphony, though (quite good!) - not the piano-orch. work. I have heard one of Widor's piano concertos (off-air tape though, indeed.)
Eric
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: thalbergmad on Sunday 13 June 2010, 20:36
One I forgot to mention is the C Minor Concerto by Marie Jaell with its monstrously difficult vivace. Possibly more of a display piece than many other French works.

Georges Mathias also wrote a couple of concertos and judging by his solo works, they might well be worth a look.

Thal
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: chill319 on Monday 14 June 2010, 02:27
Thanks for the catch, ahinton. Date emended.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: giles.enders on Monday 21 June 2010, 12:28
They arenot exactly romantic but I like the two concertos by Francis Poulenc. No one has mentioned poor old dErlanger 1868-1943 or Louise Ferranc 1804-1875 0r Dubois who wrote two.
Giles Enders
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 21 June 2010, 13:39
I think Baron d'Erlanger is generally considered an English composer, despite his French origins. I didn't know Louise Farrenc had written a piano concerto. Please correct me if I'm wrong and point me in the direction of the score. In fact, I thought she definitely had not and that the absence of one from her pen was to be lamented as it would probably have been very good. Theodore Dubois, certainly deserves a mention: 2 very attractive PCs and an equally charming and tuneful Suite for piano and strings. These deserve to be recorded. I'd also like to hear the 2 PCs of Marie Jaell.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: peter_conole on Monday 21 June 2010, 14:31
Hi all

This is a fine thread for concerto folk! I agree with the comments on Debussy's Fantaisie in G for piano and orcahetsra (1890). It is a true concerto and in traditional form. It may have been Debussy who kick-started what might be considered an overly precious affectation, conceit or trend among some composers who produced a few concerted works in the 1890s and later. That is, a calling them everything but a concerto. A petty and rather adolescent rebellion against the traditional form and even more pointless if there was no real change in the musical form.

Cecil Chaminade's Concertstuck in C Sharp for piano and and orchestra was first performed at Antwerp in 1888. The work is a delight and a real hoot, starting with a massive orchestral intro that is a jolting 'take-off' of a Wagnerian theme.

One more concerto to add - Louis-Emmanuel Jadin's Piano Concerto no 4 in D Minor appeared in 1810. A work on a rather grandiose scale that, to me, sounds like a direct retort to Beethoven. It appeared on the same disc as the  concerted works of his brother Hyacinthe: Forlane label, 2003. 

regards
Peter
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: jimmattt on Saturday 26 June 2010, 01:03
Wow! To actually see Marie Jaell's name in print, and to hear that thalbergmad has played it, is exciting!!!! I am new here, don't wish to bring up old stuff that may have been discussed before, but from reading about Jaell, seems her works would be worth hearing, especially her Piano Cto. I also want someone to tell me more about Louise Farrenc' Piano Concerto. I have collected obscure piano concertos for many years, only thing I love more than a big romantic piano concerto is a classical one, or a 20th century one, or... Then there are organ concertos to talk about, too. Thanks for this subject, and for the forum
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 26 June 2010, 01:33
Quote from: jimmattt on Saturday 26 June 2010, 01:03
Wow! To actually see Marie Jaell's name in print, and to hear that thalbergmad has played it, is exciting!!!! I am new here, don't wish to bring up old stuff that may have been discussed before, but from reading about Jaell, seems her works would be worth hearing, especially her Piano Cto. I also want someone to tell me more about Louise Farrenc' Piano Concerto. I have collected obscure piano concertos for many years, only thing I love more than a big romantic piano concerto is a classical one, or a 20th century one, or... Then there are organ concertos to talk about, too. Thanks for this subject, and for the forum

Farrenc- I'm pretty sure that was a typo, since I don't believe Farrenc's orchestral output includes any concertos. (The two of her three symphonies that I've heard, and even moreso her chamber music - e.g. two fine piano quintets, is very very good, and if you are not yet familiar with her muse I recommend acquaintance highly.) If however she did write a piano concerto- I'm glad to be wrong and hope to hear it.
Eric
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 26 June 2010, 08:33
I can find no reference anywhere to a PC by Louise Farrenc. A pity - I'm sure, had she written one, it would have been worth hearing. The Piano Quintets are superb.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 27 June 2010, 05:09
An arrangement of the Castillon op.12 has now been uploaded to IMSLP, by the way...
Eric
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: jimmattt on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 07:15
Sorry to beat a dead horse or a dead romantic French composer, Louise Farrenc, but I found mention of a Piano Concerto in B minor in the International Encyclopedia of women Composers by Aaron I. Cohen, it isn't mentioned in the Norton Grove Dictionary of Women Composers, though, so just a lovely fantasy, maybe.
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 10:11
QuoteI found mention of a Piano Concerto in B minor in the International Encyclopedia of women Composers by Aaron I. Cohen

Who is the author of that article? Perhaps he or she can be contacted and we can find bit a bit more. It may, of course, be an error. One edition of Grove credited Bronsart with a second PC (wrong!) and made Felix Dreyschock the son of Alexander (wrong! - he was his nephew).
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: giles.enders on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 16:42
No one has mentioned Louis Jadin or the other one by Boildieu which was orchestrated by some one else, I forget who.
Giles Enders
Title: Re: Romantic French Works for Piano & Orchestra
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 16:44
Quote from: giles.enders on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 16:42
No one has mentioned Louis Jadin or the other one by Boildieu which was orchestrated by some one else, I forget who.
Giles Enders

Well, Peter Conole mentioned Louis-Emmanuel Jadin's 4th piano concerto of 1810 back a week ago or so...