Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: sdtom on Sunday 05 April 2015, 18:39

Title: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: sdtom on Sunday 05 April 2015, 18:39
Received a new recording of Charles Ives on Chandos of his first two symphonies with Andrew Davis and the Melbourne. The thought occurred to me that perhaps his first symphony would qualify for unsung status. The symphony does but is Ives too popular?
Tom :)
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 April 2015, 20:11
It's certainly unsung. Fire away!
(The new Chandos CD is a slow burner - a deliberately more understated, weighty appioach from Andrew Davis. In my view - excellent.)
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: jerfilm on Monday 06 April 2015, 00:35
i'm surprised that Charlie even deserves to be discussed here......hmmmmmmm.....new surprises all the time.

Jerry
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: sdtom on Monday 06 April 2015, 02:11
Quote from: jerfilm on Monday 06 April 2015, 00:35
i'm surprised that Charlie even deserves to be discussed here......hmmmmmmm.....new surprises all the time.

Jerry

If we're talking Ives I think you're spot on but this very early work is truly written as if it were in the romantic era. From what I've read this had to do with his teacher.
Tom
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: jerfilm on Monday 06 April 2015, 03:12
i'll have to give it a listen.  Thanks.

jerry
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 April 2015, 03:52
Ives first? I guess I didn't think it was that "unsung" anymore myself what with the relative profusion of recordings (some by itself, some as parts of larger groupings) by Gould, Ormandy (1960s, reissued on Sony), Tilson Thomas (1991), Bernstein (released on CD in 2010), Sinclair (Naxos, 2003), Litton (Hyperion, 2006), Järvi (Chandos, 2002), etc. But- definitely influenced by Dvorak, maybe Tchaikovsky (he may have had an early chance to hear the latter's 6th symphony performed in the US, noted James North in a Ives 1 recording review, but it's hard to be sure from available information about performance dates of the former work, Ives' travels and diaries, &c &c), that general orbit, yes.
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 April 2015, 09:58
Ives 1 is a concert-hall rarity over here and is quite definitely late-romantic in idiom - and the new Davis recording is well worth hearing and discussing.
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: sdtom on Monday 06 April 2015, 15:21
Quote from: jerfilm on Monday 06 April 2015, 03:12
i'll have to give it a listen.  Thanks.

jerry

I encourage you to have a listen Jerry. This Chandos recording is quite good with Sir Andrew Davis leading a more than competent orchestra although not nearly as well known as others. In the liner notes his teacher was described as a bully and I'm glad that he did in the case of this symphony. If you PM or email me I have a new Carl Davis and William Perry both music for silent films.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 April 2015, 16:47
I thought Järvi conducted the Chandos recording.  Also, the bully(?) in question (and you may well be right about the effectiveness of his methods whatever they were...) was a composer I think some of us have praised (in that capacity) in this forum, I think (Horatio Parker), memory serves.
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 April 2015, 18:35
Järvi did conduct a recording for Chandos. Davis' is a recent release on the same label.
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 06 April 2015, 19:56
Ah! Sorry, my mistake.
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: sdtom on Monday 06 April 2015, 21:39
Alan could you compare the Jarvi with the Davis?
Tom
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 April 2015, 22:39
Järvi, as is his wont, is quicker than Davis. But Järvi's first movement is longer than Davis', which suggests that he must have included a repeat...
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: kuula on Monday 06 April 2015, 22:43
Brits should really stay away from Ives.  ;)   Sounds weak and un-inspired.  He doesn't translate to "furriners".
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: semloh on Tuesday 07 April 2015, 02:40
I find all the Ives symphonies most appealing, and have advocated for the 4th on UC in the distant past. The 1st is an amazing first symphony but, of course, it's really just a demonstration piece written to satisfy Horatio Parker and illustrate Ives' talent. I can't think that it bears much relation to his subsequent development, except perhaps his delight in playing fast and loose with keys! I first listened to it many decades ago on the LPs by Ormandy and Bernstein, and I am sure it popped up from time to time in the UK on BBC Radio 3.

Alan - I see you like the weightier tempo of Davis. How long does he take for the first movement? I see that Sinclair on Naxos, and Jarvi on Chandos, include a repeat in the first movement that is omitted by Litton on Hyperion, resulting in the latter being 7 minutes shorter than Sinclair. Does Davis include the repeat? My brain is unable to work out what the implications of all this are for the tempi in each case.  ???
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: adriano on Tuesday 07 April 2015, 07:59
Dont' forget the Harold Farberman recording (he did all four Symphonies), made in the late sixies on Vanguard, which have also been reissued on CD. His timings are 13:05, 9:26, 3:46 and 11:17
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 07 April 2015, 09:13
Davis' timings are: 13:08  7:37  5:01  13:53  (total 39:56 - which is slow.)
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: alberto on Tuesday 07 April 2015, 09:38
Memories of a remote era: a relatively young Zubin Mehta in the early seventies made a recording for Decca (coupled to Elgar's Enigma) with a very substantial cut in the finalw ("in order to make it more compact" said the booklet). Maybe it was in order to accomodate the symphony on one Lp side (the competitors as Gould or Ormandy had short fillers instead).
Title: Re: Charles Ives Symphony No. 1
Post by: sdtom on Tuesday 07 April 2015, 13:31
Quote from: kuula on Monday 06 April 2015, 22:43
Brits should really stay away from Ives.  ;)   Sounds weak and un-inspired.  He doesn't translate to "furriners".

If you had said the second symphony which oozes with Americana I would agree with you but the first is quite european in sound and style. As an example compare the second movement to Dvorak's slow movement as they both used an English Horn in a very similar way.
One can argue that this is a fine example of a first effort.

By the way Kuula welcome to the forum. I for one and I'm sure that others agree we welcome new comments and participation.
Tom :)