Hyperion's latest volume (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67765) will be out next month. Taubert's reputation in his lifetime was as a worthy, but dull composer, but I have a radio broadcast of his Second Concerto and it's an attractive Mendelssohnian work - no doubt Shelley will work his magic. I have no idea whether the Rosenhain will be a good one, though. What say you, Gareth?
I have an advance copy of this disk, and I must say I find the Rosenhain concerto highly attractive. In fact, I would say it was a much more engaging work than either of the Taubert PCs. You burned a copy of that radio broadcast of Taubert's No. 2 for me, so I knew what to expect - as you say, very pleasant Mendelssohnian music. The 1st concerto is in the same mould but, I think, fresher sounding. Neither of them is going to set the world on fire, but they are very enjoyable, nonetheless, and I'm glad to have them on disk. The Rosenhain, however, really brings a smile to my face.
That's very encouraging, thanks. The completist in me is always glad to be able to "round out" collections, so having Taubert's First is a plus, especially if it's a brighter work, but the Rosenhain sounds as if it is a worthwhile discovery.
If you want to take a punt at something in the Mendelssohn vein try the 5th symphony by Gade - it has a delightfull part for solo piano - infact it is all but a piano concerto:-)
I also notice re Rosenhain his string quartet #3 in D minor (op65) at IMSLP (in the usual messed-up Merton scan :) - re-sort the pages and Bob's your uncle.) On a skim and occasional hum it seems like good stuff... there are a few other scores of his music there, plus one other I may have mentioned at a Bavarian library electronic database (his piano sonata in F minor op. 44*) that's in individual pages not yet collected into PDF form (but if someone does that it can be uploaded to IMSLP too.)
*According to Hofmeister Monatsbericht (I'm too lazy to check BSB), op. 44, not op. 1. Op. 1 is a piano quartet.
Quote from: sussexbear on Friday 16 July 2010, 23:11
If you want to take a punt at something in the Mendelssohn vein try the 5th symphony by Gade
If you want Mendelssohn, the Kufferath concerto is pretty close.
Thal
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 14 July 2010, 12:10
That's very encouraging, thanks. The completist in me is always glad to be able to "round out" collections, so having Taubert's First is a plus, especially if it's a brighter work, but the Rosenhain sounds as if it is a worthwhile discovery.
I'll be glad to get this CD. That sample of the Rosenhain sounds more and more delectable the more often I listen to it!
Thal,
Any web link or catalogue details for that Kupperath concerto? All I'm getting on Google, Arkiv etc. is Elizabeth K as a soloist.
Cheers
Richard
Richard
It is Kufferath and not Kupperath.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Ferdinand_Kufferath (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Ferdinand_Kufferath)
Thal
Quote from: thalbergmad on Tuesday 20 July 2010, 12:42
Richard
It is Kufferath and not Kupperath.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Ferdinand_Kufferath (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Ferdinand_Kufferath)
Thal
No recordings of his music mentioned on Worldcat, unless I'm looking in the wrong place (I find a Johann Kufferath mentioned, is this a relative?)
Grove online has this:
Hubert-Ferdinand Kufferath
(b Mülheim, 10 June 1818; d St Josse-ten-Noode, 23 June 1896). Violinist, pianist, conductor, teacher and composer, brother of (1) Johann Hermann Kufferath. He, too, was a musical child prodigy; at scarcely the age of seven he tuned church organs, and soon afterwards appeared in public as a violinist and a pianist. His brothers gave him his first musical instruction; later he studied with F. Hartmann in Cologne and with Schneider in Dessau (1833–6). In 1839 his superb performance on the violin at a concert in Düsseldorf attracted the attention of Mendelssohn, who invited him to Leipzig. There he studied the violin with David, and afterwards studied with Mendelssohn and Hauptmann. In 1841 he conducted the Männergesangverein in Cologne for six months, and after travelling a while as a virtuoso established himself in Brussels in 1844, where he taught the piano and composition. He also conducted a choral society there and, together with Léonard and Servais, founded a series of chamber concerts by which the music of Schumann, among others, was disseminated in Belgium. His home became the meeting-place of such eminent musicians as Wieniawski, Bériot and Clara Schumann. In 1872 Kufferath was made professor of counterpoint and fugue at the Brussels Conservatory, a post he held until his death. His pupils Edouard Lassen, Arthur de Greef and Edgar Tinel praised his thorough technical understanding of music.
His works, which include symphonic, choral and chamber music, songs and piano pieces, are strongly influenced by Mendelssohn. Of greater significance is his single theoretical work, Ecole pratique du choral (Brussels, n.d.), which was used widely in Belgium and France.
Alan,
Tks for the gentle correction/clarification!
Richard
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 20 July 2010, 15:41
No recordings of his music mentioned on Worldcat, unless I'm looking in the wrong place (I find a Johann Kufferath mentioned, is this a relative?)
I was basing my judgement on my own feeble attempt to play it. No recordings as far as I know.
There were a few Kufferath's around. Not sure if Johann was a relative.
Thal
The Musical Times (http://books.google.com/books?id=FNJ6Ua9iaUoC&pg=PA383 (http://books.google.com/books?id=FNJ6Ua9iaUoC&pg=PA383)) even referred to him (Ferdinand) as Mendelssohn's "favorite" pupil. Though it's possible he might have advertised himself that way, for all I know :) So apparently Ferdinand, brother Johann, son Maurice (1852-1919) (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Kufferath (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Kufferath)) (according to Musical Times).
The École Pratique according to WorldCat was first published in or before 1876.
Eric
Vol.51 in Hyperion's RPC series turns out to contain three very entertaining concertos - including one utterly memorable near-masterpiece, i.e. Taubert's PC1. Hyperion are definitely back on course with this one!
I've just listened to these three concertos. What delightful works! For me, at first hearing, Taubert's First is the stand-out work, for all that it's debt to Mendelssohn couldn't be clearer (or maybe because of it). Not to denigrate it in any way, but it's a very pretty piece. His Second is also a good listen, but the gestures seem rather more mannered and the melody, of which there is plenty to be sure, doesn't quite have the freshness of the other work. Mind you, there were forty years between them and Taubert's idiom didn't change much in all that time. The Second must have sounded very old fashioned when it was premiered, but that needn't bother us too much now. The Rosenhain is another mellifluous work, just slightly darker here and there than either of Taubert's pieces and with a very jolly finale. I'm not sure how much staying power these works have, but they are well worth reviving on CD and I'm looking forward to another listen later in the week. Thoroughly recommended.
Now on to Dutton's Holbrooke offering...
Hyperion has started the teasers for the next vol already Volume 52 Goetz and Wieniawski. I'm very sure I'm going to like this better than Vol. 51 (No offence.. BUT lately most of the RPC releases have been of the classical-romantic type...where as I can't wait to hear their purely romantic offerings like the past Scharwenka, Brull, Stojowsky, etc ).
BTW : the recording features of Goetz's 2nd concerto!!!
There is a third Stojowski piano concerto and another extensive piece for piano and orchestra both in manuscript.
Quote from: giles.enders on Wednesday 28 July 2010, 11:51
There is a third Stojowski piano concerto and another extensive piece for piano and orchestra both in manuscript.
WOW. More info pls!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Stojowski 3rd PC has a page or two missing just before the end. However, I have no doubt these could be reasonably faithfully reconstructed.
There is also a late Concertstuck in MS by Brull, a copy of which I have. Here there is one page missing very near the beginning. Once again, it could be quite easily reconstructed.
<<If you want to take a punt at something in the Mendelssohn vein try the 5th symphony by Gade - it has a delightfull part for solo piano - infact it is all but a piano concerto:-)>>
I'm afraid I find this the least satisfying of all Gade's symphonies. It's neither one thing nor the other. I don't think the piano blends in well with the other instruments of the orchestra, it works much better as a solo concerto instrument.
i think it's a real second-rater too!
I hope that his wife liked it, then. He wrote it as a wedding present!
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 28 July 2010, 22:04
I hope that his wife liked it, then. He wrote it as a wedding present!
Offtopic in a way but I do prefer the 6th which he wrote as a memorial...
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 28 July 2010, 14:39
The Stojowski 3rd PC has a page or two missing just before the end. However, I have no doubt these could be reasonably faithfully reconstructed.
There is also a late Concertstuck in MS by Brull, a copy of which I have. Here there is one page missing very near the beginning. Once again, it could be quite easily reconstructed.
I have been looking on the net for more info or an article? on this BUT nothing. Its almost driving me crazy.
Couls you post the url ...... when was this written, key, etc. Please!!
A late response and most likely very old news. I only like to share some thoughts, and I'm sure that not all of you agree with me.
After repeated listening my first opinion hasn't changed. I like both Taubert's (the slow movement of his 2nd is beautiful), but they are not that special, and the Rosenhain, well, it's 'one of those'. Just like the Benedict's, and many others (not only in the RPC series). Entertaining, but the music gives me neither excitement nor surprises. It's musical language has been said many times before. Delightful music, but... not original.
This sounds negative, but please don't get me wrong. I'm very grateful to Hyperion. Labels like Hyperion have the guts to release very unsung repertoire, not seldom first recordings, and can only hope the release turns out to be a commercial success. And I'm happy to learn all these (very) unsung music. But it makes me realize again that there is (IMHO) an enormous gap of quality, originality and depth between the piano concertos of so many composers of the Romantic era and the great works of Chopin, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms and Tchaikovsky. It must be one of the reasons that most of them are forgotten now.
Which unsung Romantic PCs are really original? Are there hidden gems? For me, within Hyperion's RPC series, the Henselt. I was also surprised by the concertos of Litolff. And certainly Moscheles's 3rd and Scharwenka's 4th. Rubinstein's 4th with its sensitive, ominous opening? O yes, but definitely not the Hamelin version. And I love Raff's PC with all its memorable themes and the gorgeous Gernsheim (that PC isn't even commercially available!). Their concertos really make a difference. But I realize that this is a very personal opinion.
I wonder what all those average composers would have thought of their own musical output. Did they simply accept the fact that they would never reach the same level as Mendelssohn or Brahms?
QuoteI have been looking on the net for more info or an article? on this BUT nothing. Its almost driving me crazy.
Couls you post the url ...... when was this written, key, etc. Please!!
You may find the following URL helpful: http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/ (http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/)
The 3rd PC is held in the Zygmunt and Luisa Stojowski Family Collection (Archive) at the Polish Music Center.
Quote from: Peter1953 on Tuesday 17 August 2010, 21:24
Which unsung Romantic PCs are really original? Are there hidden gems?
With the huge amount of concertos that have been recorded, I guess we are going to find it difficult to find originality. As for hidden gems, I think yes.
I simply cannot wait for a commercial recording of the Rozycki which i am sure will be a hit. It will always be in my personal top 5.
The Borowski is similar in parts to Borthiewicz which should appeal to many and the Abbiate is another huge dramatic late 19th century type concerto.
For the earlier romantics, the Dohler is a little tour de force and I have a Potter on my piano that is looking promising.
Great fun is to be found in the numerous works for piano and orchestra by Czerny and there is bravura by the ton in the Hopekirk Concertstuck and the Jaell Concerto No.1.
There will something for everyone in future releases, and I am sure Hyperion is not even at the half way stage, but if you are looking for Chopin/Brahms level, there will be some disappointment.
Concertingly.
Thal
A coupling of Rozycki's op. 43 and Wieniawski's op. 20 would have given us some exiting Polish entertainment. However, as we already know another version of the Goetz, see http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67791&f=romantic piano concerto (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67791&f=romantic%20piano%20concerto)
QuoteA coupling of Rozycki's op. 43 and Wieniawski's op. 20 would have given us some exiting Polish entertainment.
But that would have deprived us of the second Rozycki PC and his Ballade for piano and orchestra. All three works would fit nicely onto one CD, and I am hoping that Hyperion will record them all one day.
Borowski and Abbiate? Yes, please. Novacek, d'Erlanger and Boise too, I hope.
By the way, Taubert wrote either 3 or 4 (acc. to Wikipedia, 4) symphonies, one of which (his 2nd, I believe- I'm not sure of the numbering; my labeling it as no.2 at IMSLP and elsewhere was a guess based on some evidence but still a guess) is available for free download from a Danish source and from IMSLP. (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm))) (According to a book about the Leipzig Gewandhaus, symphonies by Taubert in F were performed there in 1846, this B minor symphony in 1851, and a C minor symphony in 1856. WorldCat gives opus numbers- 69, 80, and 113- to these works. There are also 4 string quartets, 2 of which - nos. 2 and 3 - are on IMSLP.) I'd have to hear the Taubert 2nd, which I can't quite in my mind - it looks lean and early-Romantic (though not "Classical") - to compare it to other symphonies written in the early 1850s. (Not counting Schumann's 4th which was merely revised then! But Gade 5 of the next year, perhaps.)
Eric
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 28 July 2010, 14:39
The Stojowski 3rd PC has a page or two missing just before the end. However, I have no doubt these could be reasonably faithfully reconstructed.
I'm still surprised Hyperion didn't mention any of this in the booklet... I do hope
they might be the ones to finally do
this!!! along with the Rhapsodie symphonique pour piano et orchestre Op. 23.
QuoteI do hope they might be the ones to finally do this!!! along with the Rhapsodie symphonique pour piano et orchestre Op. 23.
You may be able to help this come to fruition by writing to Mike Spring at Hyperion. This advice applies to anyone wanting to encourage record companies to consider the sort of repertoire we like on this forum. Don't simply write about it here; contact the people who can get it done.
Gareth is absolutely right - as I hope to report concerning Rufinatscha before the end of the year.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 22 August 2010, 03:41
By the way, Taubert wrote either 3 or 4 (acc. to Wikipedia, 4) symphonies, one of which (his 2nd, I believe- I'm not sure of the numbering; my labeling it as no.2 at IMSLP and elsewhere was a guess based on some evidence but still a guess) is available for free download from a Danish source and from IMSLP. (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm)))
Hi there,
I'm new here. Just want to let Eric know that according to Fetis' "Biographie universelle des musiciens", Taubert actually wrote 5 symphonies, of which Op. 80 is the fourth. By the way, I'm the one who asked last week the Danish Royal Library for the .pdf of Taubert's Symphony Op. 80 as well as his Chöre zur Medea des Euripides. Op. 57. They have a huge collection of 19th-century music, and they are always helpful and glad to share it. So if you're looking for some "unsung music", that's a good starting point.
Simon
P.S.: Sorry for my English, it's not perfect, it's my second language.
Welcome, Simon.
This Danish Royal Library could be a potential treasure trove! Perhaps there may be some full scores of works that exist elsewhere only in piano reduction! Has anybody really looked there besides Simon? Welcome aboard, friend! ;D
Well, it's relatively easy to look...
http://www.kb.dk/en (http://www.kb.dk/en)
It is a treasure trove and they digitalise and post the results which are freely downloadable.
http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/samling/ma/digmus/index.html (http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/samling/ma/digmus/index.html)
They also (or should I say used to) digitalise any of their holdings free of charge which they did for me on several occasions.
British Library please take note ;D
Thal
I see Alan has passed the 1,000 post mark and is now officially a hero.
Thal
Well, yes - very embarrassing!
It is, of course, a privilege to (co-)moderate this forum; and without our regular - and irregular - posters there would, of course, be nothing to moderate!
Quote from: Simon on Monday 23 August 2010, 19:47
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 22 August 2010, 03:41
By the way, Taubert wrote either 3 or 4 (acc. to Wikipedia, 4) symphonies, one of which (his 2nd, I believe- I'm not sure of the numbering; my labeling it as no.2 at IMSLP and elsewhere was a guess based on some evidence but still a guess) is available for free download from a Danish source and from IMSLP. (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2,_Op.80_(Taubert,_Wilhelm)))
Hi there,
I'm new here. Just want to let Eric know that according to Fetis' "Biographie universelle des musiciens", Taubert actually wrote 5 symphonies, of which Op. 80 is the fourth. By the way, I'm the one who asked last week the Danish Royal Library for the .pdf of Taubert's Symphony Op. 80 as well as his Chöre zur Medea des Euripides. Op. 57. They have a huge collection of 19th-century music, and they are always helpful and glad to share it. So if you're looking for some "unsung music", that's a good starting point.
Simon
P.S.: Sorry for my English, it's not perfect, it's my second language.
Thank you- changing name of the IMSLP page accordingly. Yes, the Danish library page here (http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/samling/ma/digmus/e-node_acc/enoder_10-10.html) and the site it's a part of generally is very useful (the page http://imslp.org/wiki/IMSLP:Other_music_score_websites (http://imslp.org/wiki/IMSLP:Other_music_score_websites) lists a few other sources of music score scans worth browsing too, by the way.)
Rather wish the Stanford second violin concerto reduced score were scanned in :)
Eric
Quote from: FBerwald on Wednesday 28 July 2010, 07:21
I'm very sure I'm going to like this better than Vol. 51 (No offence.. BUT lately most of the RPC releases have been of the classical-romantic type...where as I can't wait to hear their purely romantic offerings like the past Scharwenka, Brull, Stojowsky, etc ).
I'm the same. I studiously try to avoid the classical romantics when buying the Hyperion series. This is not easy by listening to the 30sec bits provided by Amazon, so I usually look up the composer, and as a rule of thumb, if he was born before 1830, then I avoid.
Off topic: I was privileged to get hold of the Bowen piano concerto in Italy last year, and found the use of the tuba unusual and special.
I say Sir, is that wise?
You will miss the Pixis.
Thal
Quote from: thalbergmad on Tuesday 24 August 2010, 22:37
I say Sir, is that wise?
You will miss the Pixis.
Thal
Is there some pl;ace where we can listen to some sample bits of the Pixis. I have heard so much about him in this forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QuoteThey also (or should I say used to) digitalise any of their holdings free of charge which they did for me on several occasions.
British Library please take note
Oh, how I wish the BL would have the decency to start a programme of digitisation - or, better still, simply respond (as does the Sibley Music Library in the U.S.) to requests for copies of scores by digitising them free of charge, posting the requester a link to the digitised score, then uploading it to IMSLP. How civilised! The process takes between 4-6 weeks, but it's a splendid service. All the BL does is rip you off!
I cannot see that ever happening, but i guess one can dream.
I once asked them to digitalise a score as opposed to having a paper copy and it came out at 500mb. PDF creation does not appear to be their strongpoint ;D
Thal
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 25 August 2010, 15:46
QuoteThey also (or should I say used to) digitalise any of their holdings free of charge which they did for me on several occasions.
British Library please take note
Oh, how I wish the BL would have the decency to start a programme of digitisation - or, better still, simply respond (as does the Sibley Music Library in the U.S.) to requests for copies of scores by digitising them free of charge, posting the requester a link to the digitised score, then uploading it to IMSLP. How civilised! The process takes between 4-6 weeks, but it's a splendid service. All the BL does is rip you off!
Sibley Library doesn't upload scores to the IMSLP (so far as I know????) - volunteers for IMSLP do that once they (we) notice that something's been uploaded to Sibley and that it satisfies all the necessary (i.e. Canadian as well as American, ...) copyright laws and etc.. Just to clarify, there - I do agree of course!
Eric
QuoteSibley Library doesn't upload scores to the IMSLP (so far as I know????) - volunteers for IMSLP do that once they (we) notice that something's been uploaded to Sibley and that it satisfies all the necessary (i.e. Canadian as well as American, ...) copyright laws and etc.
You're quite right, Eric - my mistake. But, as you say, my point remains: that here is a library committed to making its out-of-copyright material freely and conveniently available to the widest possible public; which, I would have thought, ought to be the priinciple underlying every academic database of information. But then I always was naive and optimistic!!!