Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Sunday 31 January 2016, 09:35

Title: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 31 January 2016, 09:35
I understand that cpo are due to release Goldmark's marvellous opera in a recording made in Freiburg.  A Google search reveals that the production there starred the wonderfully named Thai tenor Nutthaporn Thammathi - who also has a wonderful voice, by the way!
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Claude Torres on Sunday 31 January 2016, 11:10
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 31 January 2016, 09:35
I understand that cpo are due to release Goldmark's marvellous opera in a recording made in Freiburg.  A Google search reveals that the production there starred the wonderfully named Thai tenor Nutthaporn Thammathi - who also has a wonderful voice, by the way!

After 2 releases of  this opera on CD (Hungaroton and Gala) I hope this time a DVD will be available in addition to the CPO release. (The trailer on YouTube is wonderful)

Claude
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: adriano on Sunday 31 January 2016, 11:12
I think the 1980 Hungaroton recording will hardly be surpassed!
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 31 January 2016, 13:08
You are 100% right, Adriano. The Hungaroton is a classic recording, wonderfully sung and (in its original LP incarnation) extremely well documented. It'll be hard, if not impossible to beat. But it'll be good to have a chance to hear it again...
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: MartinH on Monday 01 February 2016, 03:21
Meanwhile, The Cricket on the Hearth remains unrecorded...(:
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 01 February 2016, 04:12
Probably got burnt waiting...
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Claude Torres on Monday 01 February 2016, 07:33
Quote from: MartinH on Monday 01 February 2016, 03:21
Meanwhile, The Cricket on the Hearth remains unrecorded...(:

That's true for Das Heimchen am Herd (21. März 1896 Hofoper Wien)
Only Die Königin von Saba (10. März 1875 Hofoper Wien) and Merlin (19. Nov. 1886 Hofoper Wien) heve been recorded

But what about the other operas?


Claude
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 01 February 2016, 13:47
BTW full score and parts of Heimchen am Herd seem to be in the archives of the Weimar theatre (see here (https://opac.rism.info/search?id=280000861).) I'd like to be positive the performing material exists for the other 4, but at least it definitely does for that one (1898 published prints/copies of manuscripts/etc. used for a April 10 1898 Weimar performance of the work.)
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: BerlinExpat on Monday 01 February 2016, 20:52
Götz von Berlichingen in the new veresion from 1910 was performed in the seasons 2011-12 and 2012-13 at the Eduard-von-Winterstein Theater in Annaberg-Buchholz, a small theatre that has presented a number of forgotten Romantic operas over the years. If I remember correctly one scene was cut from either act 1 or act 2 and the performance lasted 128 minutes  ;).

Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: BerlinExpat on Wednesday 03 February 2016, 22:38
According to Freiburg Opera the recording of Die Königin von Saba should appear on CPO this spring.
The next in the series from Freiburg will be Ermanno Wolf-Ferrari's I gioielli della Madonna which has its premìére on 5th March this year. That fits very well into the CPO Wolf-Ferrari collection and it's high time there was a modern recording of the opera. The excellent recent production in Bratislava was spoiled by cutting out the introduction before act 2!
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 April 2016, 19:15
It's only on two CDs:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/karl-goldmark-die-koenigin-von-saba/hnum/8455682 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/karl-goldmark-die-koenigin-von-saba/hnum/8455682)
Does this mean it's cut?
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: MartinH on Saturday 02 April 2016, 05:06
It has to be. Each of the three discs on the Hungaroton recording clock in at 64min and some seconds. Total is 192 minutes or so. Dividing it into two disks would make 86+ min/disk and that's not likely, or possible. What a shame if it's true. Of course, cutting operas is nothing new, but I don't like it.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 02 April 2016, 10:12
Thought so.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Wheesht on Saturday 02 April 2016, 15:42
Technically it is possible these days to have CDs with a playing time of 86 to 88 minutes, these are the playing times on two CDs on the Bear Family label that I have in my collection ... so there may be hope.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 02 April 2016, 17:58
Can't see it myself.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Wheesht on Saturday 02 April 2016, 21:50
German reviews of the Freiburg production mention cuts in the first act, favourably, and in one it says that the complete recording on CPO (this time without cuts) will be something to look forward to, but it would appear that the reviewer was mistaken?
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 02 April 2016, 22:25
Who knows? Anyway, as has been pointed out, the fine Hungaroton recording runs to 192+ mins. The cpo release surely can't be longer than 160 mins, so it looks as though a lot will be missing...
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Claude Torres on Sunday 03 April 2016, 12:35
The CD Gala GL100620 includes 3 CD
76:15 + 77:06 + 6:53 & 60:35 (of Bonus) = 220:49 = 160:14 (without bonus)

So it is possible the CPO set will contain only 2 CDs.

Claude
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 03 April 2016, 13:05
It does contain only two CDs - see my link, above.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: BerlinExpat on Sunday 03 April 2016, 23:05
Apparently there are significant cuts; most severely in act 1 and the ballet is missing, as often is the case these days. I'll stay with Hungaroton!
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 03 April 2016, 23:12
I'll buy the cpo set - I'm curious to hear the Thai tenor who sounds world-class on YouTube.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 04 April 2016, 07:52
No, not for me. I don't need alternative recordings of the opera when the Hungaroton is so good unless this new set offers something exceptional, but instead it seems to be seriously flawed.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 April 2016, 09:10
I'm a sucker for good tenors. Can't wait to hear him in full cry...
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: adriano on Monday 04 April 2016, 17:42
So am I, Alan  8)
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 April 2016, 22:54
I'll often go for a new operatic recording if the cast is good, even I've already got the opera. I've lost count of the number of Toscas I've got. For me it's all part of refreshing my interest in a work (as well as enjoying the sound of magnificent voices).
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Ebubu on Thursday 14 April 2016, 13:20
Yes !! I was looking forward to this recording, having attended 2 performances of the Freiburg show.  Nutthaporn Thammathi is indeed a revelation, especially considering his young age.  You'll also discover another wonderful young soprano, Irma Mihelic.  There might have been a few minor cuts, especially in the ballet, but I think it's otherwise pretty complete.

PS : The Youtube videos of Nutthaporn Thammathi still don't give the best idea of him.  After hearing him on the 1st night, I booked a ticket for a 2nd performance 2 days later (this time with Irma Mihelic, who was much better than her cover who sang on the 1st night), and a few months later, I made the trip to Budapest (from France) to hear him again at the Budapest Opera (still in the same role, which he had even improved from the Freiburg performances).
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 14 April 2016, 16:47
Right! I'm going to order it!
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 29 April 2016, 12:00
As it turns out - and my copy arrived from jpc this morning - it's on 3 CDs! And the timings are close to those on the Hungaroton recording, so I'm assuming it's complete.

Jpc now shows the correct number of CDs, by the way...

Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 29 April 2016, 23:23
The tenor's spectacularly good. He's a major new star. It's a great opera, by the way. To my mind it's the finest German-tradition grand opera of the second half of the nineteenth century beyond Wagner.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Ebubu on Sunday 01 May 2016, 00:11
QuoteThe tenor's spectacularly good. He's a major new star.

Yep, I'm glad you liked him.
He participated in the last Operalia contest, but didn't make it to the finals, being sick.
That is very unfortunate, since I know of some other singers half as talented as him who made it to the finals....
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Dave on Thursday 14 February 2019, 18:57
That CPO album of "The Queen of Sheba" was nominated by Gramophone Magazine I think in 2016 or 2017.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 23 December 2021, 23:19
And it's a very fine set indeed - perhaps not sung with the abandon of the soloists on the wonderful Hungaroton set, but fully acceptable and often far more than that. The tenor is world-class.

It's currently available at half-price from jpc:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/karl-goldmark-die-koenigin-von-saba/hnum/8455682

Do try it if you don't know it!





Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: semloh on Monday 27 December 2021, 06:42
What's the name of the tenor, Alan?
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 27 December 2021, 07:16
Hi Colin: Nuttaporn Thammathi (from Thailand).
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 29 December 2021, 10:31
Ah, thanks Alan. I couldn't figure out who's who from the sleeves. I don't know much about opera, but goodness this really illustrates how international it has become. It sounds improbable, but I wonder if there's much interest in opera in Thailand.
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 29 December 2021, 20:50
I can't be sure, but my guess is that there is a growing interest in opera and in singing in the far east. Some of the world's best tenors are names we hardly know in the west - and Mr Thammathi is a magnificent example of the current crop of young artists who are now storming the world's singing competitions.

Try these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnTNzc9Hudc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dwkZahQTw
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 30 December 2021, 22:33
Or a growing awareness here of an already existing interest :)

Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: ewk on Wednesday 28 December 2022, 22:16
Today, Youtube has prompted me to a 7-year old video of Tenor Ben Bliss, to my amateur ears an absolutely wonderful rendition of the famous aria "Magische Töne" from this opera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie697C-zj0g

Would be interested in what those with greater knowledge about singing say about this, but to my ears it's purely "Magische Töne" (magical sounds) – these high notes!

Best wishes, ewk
Title: Re: Goldmark Die Königin von Saba
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 29 December 2022, 09:50
He's American. And he sings very beautifully - yes. However, it's one thing to sing in this manner accompanied by piano and quite another to deliver the aria on the operatic stage. I have no idea whether he actually has the voice for what is quite a strenuous role. So, three cheers for a lovely rendition, but a question mark over his ability to take on the part of Assad as a whole.

The tenors who have actually recorded the role, Siegfried Jerusalem and Nuttaporn Thammathi, have much larger voices - e.g:
Jerusalem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p70JT-O6KZA 
Thammathi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dwkZahQTw
(both at a much more realistic tempo, too!)

Nevertheless, I shall be watching out for Mr Bliss (great name!)