Bax is probably one of the most "Romantic" of composers. Does he fit in the perview of this board?
Just about!
I would hope so - we've discussed him a lot in the past. Not so much recently. There's a long list of music I'd like to hear performed live, or even participate in a performance of. The Bax 3rd symphony is high on that list. And I'll continue to make my case to any conductor who will listen.
To be clear: Just about = Yes!
Alan, are you saying that Bax is an Unsung Composer, or simply that some works by him are unsung?
mgbhaub. are you suggesting that the Bax symphonies, and No.3 in particular, are neglected by conductors in respect of recordings or of concerts?
Definitely neglected in performance, though not as much as many others. Fairly well represented in recordings, though some works less than others.
These days with three complete symphony cycles, that's not only the best you can hope for, it's positively luxurious. Bax is no longer unsung.
He's unsung in the concert hall, so let's proceed...
Winter Legends, Spring Fire, and the Seventh Symphony. 3 pieces I never tire of.
There's some Bax in the next year, including The Garden of Fand in Birmingham on Thursday this week.
What about the Symphony in F (realized and orchestrated by Martin Yates)? has anyone reviewed this release?
Yes, see here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4721.msg50588.html#msg50588). Four pages in the thread, which I think doesn't need adding to!
Despite three terrific recorded cycles, and the splendid Lyrita recordings, I still think he's unsung. When I talk to orchestra musicians and people who enjoy attending concerts, hardly anyone has ever heard anything by Bax, and most have never even heard of him. I know conductors who have never heard a note. There's one person I know who is at least familiar with Bax, but then he's as dedicated a collector as I am. Maybe things are different in the UK, but at least in my world Bax is an unsung, unknown and unperformed composer. And not the only one as we all know too well.
Things are a bit better here, as you'd expect, but I'd say that he was still largely unsung in the UK. He's not a big name like Elgar or Parry but he does have a following, and I suspect that amongst most musicians he'd get at least name recognition, if not much more. Amongst the general concert-going public though, I suspect that he remains an unknown quantity.
The only piece of his I have ever heard in concert is Tintagel (glorious!)
In relation to his true stature, he is one of the greatest "unsung" of any era.
I guess it depends on everybody's idea of what "sung'" means. I'd propose to consider a composer sung under two conditions: 1) His/her works are performed live with some frequency and 2) his/her name is familiar to regular concertgoers (not specialists). I am sure under this definition Bax must be counted as "unsung". It would also mean that availability of a nice set of recordings does not "promote" a composer to sung status by itself.
This whole debate brings up a riddle I am not sure has been addressed on this forum: The special case "England" (or UK if you prefer). There is no sung English composer I know of in the interval between Purcell and Britten, at least not sung outside the UK. (Händel is German for those who don't remember). And this from a nation that was more than competitive in literature for--as far as I know--this entire time and was no slouch in painting either. Why?
I dare say Arthur Sullivan is pretty damn sung, as is Elgar and Vaughan-Williams.
But you have a point otherwise, and one that's been made before many many times.
Look on my soundcloud page for live performances of two substantial Bax works.
QuoteThere is no sung English composer I know of in the interval between Purcell and Britten, at least not sung outside the UK.
Elgar's appearing on the map outside the UK - mainly due to Rattle and Barenboim, especially the latter. Colin Davis did Elgar in Dresden too. But the biggest scandal concerns VW - to my mind the equal of any 20th century symphonist. Supposedly his music doesn't 'travel'. What nonsense!
Sullivan's really only known for the Savoy operas, in other words he's a special case.
And the great name nobody's mentioned is Walton - one of the most recognisable of 20thC composers.
Still, back to Bax...
I don't know what qualifies as unsung, but in the U.S. Vaughan Williams is frequently programmed, and I doubt a year goes by without Holst's infernal The Planets being programmed by at least one major orchestra (and probably several second-rank orchestras). At the very least the Tallis and Greensleeves Fantasias and the English Folksong Suite are staples.
Isn't only Pluto the infernal planet? And he isn't even a planet any more...
But you are right, I forgot Holst (maybe the suite isn't terrible, just overused). As to Elgar and Vaughan Williams I maintain that they are unsung outside Anglosaxonia. Undeservedly as you say, especially the second.
Holst's Planets is a great masterpiece - and like all such, frequently programmed. But that's not the fault of the piece...
Daniel Barenboims' magnificent new recording of Elgar's First Symphony with the Staatskapelle Berlin on Decca, should make a few more friends for him outside "Anglo-Saxonia" (never heard that before, btw).
VW symphonies don't get much airing here; in my career I've played exactly two (1 and 5). Other orchestral works are heard a bit more often, along with two or three choral works. The Boston Oops used to routinely include the Greensleeves fantasia at Christmas time. English music still needs consistent exposure here for it to manifest a presence in the repertoire.
QuoteVW symphonies don't get much airing here
A scandal! Yet there are/have been some great American advocates of his music - e.g. Previn, Slatkin (L.), Spano; in Europe one might name Haitink, Bakels, Berglund, Rozhdestvensky, etc. Further back, Bernstein, Koussevitsky, Mitropoulos and Stokowski have also been very influential, so the picture hasn't always been so gloomy...
QuoteThe Boston Oops
Oops indeed!
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 May 2016, 16:18
Holst's Planets is a great masterpiece - and like all such, frequently programmed. But that's not the fault of the piece...
Admission: I watched the BBC series on the planets (about astronomy for those who haven't seen it) and they kept using Holst's music thoughout. Now I need a break from it.
The BBC series is in other ways magnificent and highly recommended for people with scientific interests.
In the US, performing The Planets while showing pictures of planets, stars, space shuttles, etc often provided by NASA or local universities has become common. Of course, having psychics, tarot cards and tea leaves would be more appropriate. And when I write program notes I make sure to point this out. Really irritates some conductors.
I'm glad you do that! I think it's an awful trend that's setting in here regarding performances of The Planets. Audiences get enough music with images, and we shouldn't encourage an idea that that's how it should always be when hearing program or descriptive music.
Boston Oops
! Oops!
Please forgive the outburst. I was just shell-shocked. Will not happen again.
Oh my. Did Arnold Bax say that?
Nope. Let's steer well clear of politics: that way lies madness...
I second Alan. Much as we would all like to have a say, that line only opens up a can of worms and deflects from the true purpose of this forum. Also at the risk of being accused of wearing rose coloured glasses I would like to say that maybe Music might be the one thing we all have in common after all. Now Bax to back! :)
QuotePlease forgive the outburst. I was just shell-shocked. Will not happen again.
Don't worry. It's good to have you here.
I must say in France he's a TOTAL unsung composer, as are VW and even Elgar (only heard his Dream of Gerontius by the French Radio forces, eons ago...). I wish some La Mer performances (which you can hear about 20 times per season in Paris !) would sometimes be replaced by Bax works or VW Sea Symphony. THAT is a glorious piece !
Bax's scores are famously layered, with a large number of notes going on at once. In addition, the thread of his musical argument is not always easy to parse in a way that allows it to display the intrinsic Janus-like emotional and philosophical maturity the composer invested in it.
Over the last 40+ years I've never heard a performance of Bax that more successfully renders these potentially difficult features as cogent, natural musical argument than the recording of Tintagel by Sir Mark Elder and the Hallé SO. There isn't a wasted measure or lost moment in that performance.
I would certainly agree that Bax is unsung in terms of concert performances, and that's as true here in Australia as anywhere. VW is better represented, and a year or two ago Lark Ascending topped the list of the 100 favourite orchestral work voted by listeners to the ABC radio classical music station, which covers British composers fairly generously.
There are also, of course, many work by Bax that are not available on disc. The 5 Fantasies on Polish Christmas Carols are a case in point. They are quite lovely: I taped them off BBC Radio 3 many years ago (St Angela's Singers/Divertimento) but I've never been able to find a recording.
Quite right that we haven't packed our Bax on my greatest nearby composer. Don't neglect his tone poems, or rather musical tonics, which can transform the worst of days. For here is to be found all the shimmering colours of nature, haunting enchantment, wonder and pure delight. He offers a fast-flowing stream of lovely melodies gorgeously orchestrated with a restless, fresh-faced inventiveness that captures the listener's constant attention. November Woods (1917) is a fine example.