As with the Scholz/Rheinberger release, I think this CD merits a thread of its own. The website of pianist Emmanuel Despax confirms that the...
...recording with the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra conducted by Eugene Tzigane will be released in 2018 on Hyperion - It features romantic concerti by two of Liszt's students, Hans Bronsart von Schellendorf and Anton Urspruch.
http://www.emmanueldespax.com/ (http://www.emmanueldespax.com/)
This is what Mr Despax posted some while back on Facebook:
Off to Glasgow next week to record these great romantic concerti by 2 Liszt students for Hyperion Records, along with the wonderful BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Eugene Tzigane.
It was a fantastic experience for me to discover these works I had never heard before. Despite having the same teacher, they are both incredibly different. The Bronsart is very Lisztian, full of bravura, with a virtuoso piano part. And the Urspruch is more symphonic, like a Brahms piano concerto, and quite Wagnerian at times. I can't wait to hear it with the orchestra!
Thanks for this reminder. I, for one, will definitely be buying this. I really like the Ponti von Bronsart, but it will be nice to have a version with "modern" sound.
.. and, dare I say it, one where the music is the star rather than the pianist.
Just noticed on clicmusique:
http://www.clicmusique.com/bronsart-urspruch-concertos-pour-piano-despax-tzigane-p-100905.html?osCsid=ed6416658f04dfdfabff77d1c10fdf01
Here's news of the CD's release (plus an excerpt from the finale of the Bronsart - wow!):
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2018_10 (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2018_10)
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/images/records/hyperioncda68229.jpg?1533934642)
Am so looking forward to this - I love the Urspruch PC [CPO] - The 1st movement rambles, I admit but the detours are all so beautiful that I didn't care.
PS: on a diff note - anyone have any clues on what delights further await us in the pipeline of RPC - Afterall the series is fast approaching vol. 80?
Sound bites now available here (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dw.asp?dc=W20699_68229). I'm not that fussed about the Urspruch, but we have been waiting so long for a modern alternative to Ponti's barnstorming old recording of the terrific Bronsart concerto. The audio extracts are very encouraging.
Yes. I can't wait to hear the Bronsart recording. It's a favourite concerto of mine, sung or unsung. I sometimes wonder whether Hyperion's policy of publishing photographs of the composers on the front of the booklets may sometimes be a little counterproductive. Who would think that stern looking bewhiskered gentleman could have produced such a superb....and wonderfully entertaining...piece?!
Bronsart (von Schellendorff) lived a fairly long life. I'm pretty sure that when he composed his concerto he was much younger than that image, but it doesn't appear that he posed for any photos or portraits in his younger days. It would indeed be interesting to see what he looked like as a young man.
I did find a photograph of Hans and Ingeborg presumably taken not long after their marriage in 1861. The concerto dates from 1872.
http://www.dmga.de/bildarchiv/portrait-register/bildarchiv-details.html?tx_dmgabildarchiv_pi1%5Bdetail_uid%5D=191&cHash=2e0d969e2b88b3848bcede07d0e4cb73
It's a problem one generally sees with historical figures, and particularly artists: once they are off well enough to have photographs taken or portraits painted, they are generally near the end of their lives and past their creative prime (and yes, there are plenty of exceptions). I always encourage the use of images from early in a composer's life, to make for something of a change from the usual portraits, but also to counteract the cliché that classical music is somehow "music for old people".
I've always loved the old Vox recording of the Bronsart, but I am definitely looking forward to the new CD... I wonder why we don't see it on concert programmes?
Because only a few aficionados like us know about it, Colin!
Oh nice, that Brosart is a crackling piece, will look forward to this one. Never heard the Urspruch but the samples sound promising for sure.
QuoteOh nice, that Brosart is a crackling piece
...but only if you set fire to the CD ;)
The Bronsart & Urspruch Hyperion CD can now be pre-ordered from MDT with a release date of September 28, 2018.
https://www.mdt.co.uk/bronsart-urspruch-piano-concertos-hyperion-romantic-piano-concerto-77.html
Thanks, Ken.
I can foresee the problem with this release: the already expansive Uspruch PC has been dragged out to 45 minutes here. That won't do the work any favours. Can't comment on the Bronsart, except that it'll surely be worth the price of the CD on its own - which is just as well...
Relatively, those three minutes won't make much of a difference I guess. The Triendl/Fritsch recording is still 42 minutes, but is also very good indeed, so Despax/Zigane have something to live up to. We'll have to wait and see; only five more days to go!
I disagree - mildly. It's worth comparing this with the cpo - there the opening has a sense of momentum; here it's distinctly sticky.
Hyperion: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/piano-concertos/hnum/8717740 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/piano-concertos/hnum/8717740) (track 4)
cpo: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/anton-urspruch-klavierkonzert/hnum/7971898 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/anton-urspruch-klavierkonzert/hnum/7971898) (track 1)
Oh, I do see your point, as I similarly had a mild sense of foreboding after listening to the audio samples. But I try not to infer too much from those, so I'll defer judgment until I've listened to the whole thing.
Yes. I see that Despax takes two minutes longer than Ponti for the first movement of the Bronsart. That may not be bad news, though, since Ponti, as we all know, is inclined to rush. Overall, he takes 27 mins 7 secs and Despax 30 mins 21 secs. Still, there can be no cruder measure of a performance than how long it takes. I have high hopes of the Hyperion disc.
Others love it, I know, but I find Urspruch's Concerto, like his Symphony, overlong and self-indulgent. Prolonging it, even by three minutes, does not bode well in my book.
It's just arrived. As we predicted this is a more expansive performance of the first movement of Bronsart's concerto than Ponti's; it may seem a little laboured at first. There is much more ebb and flow. The slow movement is beautifully done, the debt to Brahms clearer than ever though, overall, the concerto belongs more to the Liszt school of course. Despax can't quite match Ponti's spirit in the finale but tempi are similar and Despax is the more polished player. The recording is good though a little congested. Some detail is lost. I noticed this in the development section of the first movement in particular. So, an impressive disc which should do a lot to promote this magnificent concerto.
I haven't heard the Urspruch yet.
Not needing another performance of the Urspruch, I only downloaded the Bronsart this morning, and was delighted with the bonus of the finale being a free download. My impressions of Despax's performance are very similar to Revilod's. Being so used to Ponti's madcap dash, I really appreciated Despax's broader approach to the first movement, he gives it much more light and shade but it never really dawdles. It's simply a tad slower than the only other performance we've been listening to for the last forty-odd years, and rather the better for it IMHO. The slow movement is meltingly gorgeous and the finale is altogether lighter and less frenetic in the Hyperion recording. All in all, it was a huge relief to hear this splendid favourite receive such a persuasive modern performance.
My copy arrived today, I should have time to play it early next week. Especially looking forward to the Urspruch as I'm very fond of Ana-Marija Markovina's discs of this composers solo piano music so I'm looking forward to seeing how he writes for the piano along with the orchestra! I've not heard the CPO recording yet either.
I believe Markovina plans to record the Urspruch Piano Concerto as well.
Well, that was flagged on the Urspruch website some time ago, but there's been no news since.
Markovina- I think she was busy with another even larger project, or maybe that _was_ busy and that's finished now. (As in, a competing and now almost/completely done recording of CPE Bach solo keyboard works on piano instead of harpsichord/tangent/whatevers.) Thought her name looked familiar...
I've listened to the Bronsart twice now, and my feelings are mixed. The extra three minutes or so Despax invests mainly manifest themselves in the opening movement, which gets shape much more satisfyingly than with Ponti; the slow movement is likewise beautifully played and much more lively somehow. Unfortunately, for me at least, much of that positive feeling evaporates in the finale, which loses most of its Lisztian fluidity and even becomes cumbersome and "square" here and there. And in concertos of this kind, the show of virtuosity in the finale is an important element - it has to be frenetic to some extent. Of course, the orchestra is much better than in the old recording, as is the sound (nicely balanced although, as Revilod indicated, a tad too full). Now on to the Urspruch.
Edit: as for the Urspruch, contrary to my fears there is really very little in it between Despax and Triendl. The sound sample featured the lacklustre beginning of the first movement, which is immediately where the Despax recording -relatively- slightly goes off the rails. But after that, most of it is fine. Of course, this is the most problematic movement of the concerto, and I have to agree with Mark that it is somewhat self-indulgent and overly long. Not in a a Franz Lachner "we can merrily continue this for another four hours" sort of way, but more in an Anton Rubinstein-esque "let's throw everything at it, see what sticks and not give it another thought" mode.
Surprisingly Despax pulls off the middle slow movement much more ably than Triendl (normally the better pianist in this repertoire) does, and the way both approach the finale is very similar and therefore, very good. I had reservations about this one, but Despax/Tzigane's interpretation holds up quite well next to the one on CPO. Sound is better than on the muffled (but also much older) CPO recording, although I prefer the Nordwestdeutsche Philharmonie's sound and Fritzsch's direction slightly than that the BBC Scots/Tzigane combo.
First thoughts, but still pleasantly surprised by the Urspruch, not as satisfied by the Bronsart as I hoped I'd be.
Although I have it, I've never played Ponti's Bronsart very often, so I suspect I'm going to like the new CD.
I agree that the first movement of Urspruch's concerto is far too long for its attractive but rather slight material. It's also very limited in emotional range. On the plus side it's very clearly constructed... but is there really enough material here to justify fullscale orchestral and then solo expositions? The other movements are much more successful, though. ( By the way the trilling entry of the soloist in the first movement immediately put me in mind of Faure's Ballade for Piano and Orchestra which, I see, dates from the previous year. )
Yes, I agree that Despax can't quite match Ponti's spirit in the finale of Bronsart's concerto but I don't think he's too far off. The movement still packs a punch.
Sorry, but the first movement of the Urspruch is all wrong - far too glutinous and sticky, not to mention slow. It's just awful: no match, I'm afraid, for the cpo performance. So, a bit of a curate's egg of a release: the Bronsart's splendid - it has real Schwung - but the Urspruch is badly misjudged. What a shame. In any case the coupling's all wrong too: to follow the Lisztian pyrotechnics of the Bronsart with the Brahmsian mellowness of the Urspruch makes no sense at all. The Draeseke PC would have made a great coupling, but that's aleady been done; the Raff would also have been much more appropriate.
So: three cheers for the Bronsart, one for the Urspruch...
Each time I've listened to Despax's Bronsart I have appreciated its merits all the more. It's not only a worthy modern replacement for the Ponti recording, IMHO it quite eclipses it. Admittedly I'm no great fan of Ponti's speed-merchant showmanship (others are, I know, and this concerto is certainly a splendid vehicle for it), but what Despax demonstrates is that the work has both fireworks and, in the first two movements, genuine grandeur and beauty. It's a hugely satisfying listen. I didn't get the Urspruch and, judging by Alan's verdict, that was a wise decision.
It seems I'm in the minority here (not with regards to the Bronsart which is spectacular!) - I agree that on 1st hearing, the Urspruch performance doesn't match the CPO in terms of energy and that, as we all know is because of the same old problem - tempo - When will Hyperion realize the the correct speed of an Allegro or rather Allegro ma non troppo which they seem read as Adagio. But other than the speed, I quite liked the expansive performance - Again in terms of the structure of the 1st movement, I was able to assimilate more and was surprised to hear wonderful details I missed in the CPO. The orchestral playing is clearer than CPO (may be that's the recording quality) and the pianist, though mellow doesn't lack energy just because he plays a tad slow (I do admit, I wish it was faster).
PS: I think the reason why many people have a problem with with Urspruch concerto is because they mistakenly think (especially in the 1st movement) the compose overindulges (I initially thought so) but I think that Urspruch is a more complex composer then we think... Urspruch knew exactly what he was doing and if we take a few steps back and look at the movement as a whole (rather then very pretty snatches of movements - from near... it soon starts to loose momentum), the piece is tightly(imho) constructed.
I'd like to point out that I'm going through some sort of Bruckner catharsis now - I've made my opinion on how boring Bruckner is for me quite a number of times on this forum but I seem to be coming around, I fact I'm slowly falling in love with his symphonies as I am (repeatedly) progressing through the whole 9 - I think the key is looking at it like an impressionist painting. Too near it and we only see beautiful brushstrokes - but step back and we see a "painting". Sorry about the semi-rant but I feel we listen to music from a "What I wish the composer would write" frame of mind instead of " What did the composer write?"
I'm not a Ponti fan at all, generally, but the Bronsart finale needs a bit more spirit than Despax gives it, in my view. He is very safe, and as such the complete opposite of Ponti. As I wrote my opinion of the Urspruch's 2nd and 3rd movement is more positive than Alan's (we've perhaps exhausted the shortcomings of the opening movement). But overall, this release is a welcome addition, and I'm glad we have it.
FBerwald, you may have a point regarding tempo on the Urspruch, but it's perhaps the piece's ambition, here translated into expansiveness, that makes it a bit overwhelming. It would be interesting to know if Raff, Urspruch's colleague at the Hoch conservatory, had anything to say about the work. It's definitely not a piece that reveals itself upon first hearing. Still, if I compare it to the immediate attraction of, say, Moszkowski's equally-long first concerto, it's evident that the latter makes its points far better.
I agree Ilja - Moszkowski is even longer but he packs it in with more stuff like a Dvorak symphony and it's immediately appealing. With Urspruch, I feel it's more of development of the materials.
I have to disagree about the Urspruch - for me the first movement simply falls apart the way Despax does it. I was bored, which I never have been with the cpo.
Choice of tempi is a frequent cause of disagreement among reviewers. I suspect it will remain so with this release.
The more I listen to that first movement of the Urspruch, though, the more I get the impression that something is just not right. Can anyone supply the tempo indications from the score?
The tempo indication for I (as stated by both cpo and Hyperion) is 'Allegro ma non troppo'. I've no idea what more information, if any, the score gives. Despax/Tzigane just get it completely wrong.
Judging from MPH (https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1449.html) there's no metronome indication on the first page of the Urspruch score.
So it comes down to what 'Allegro ma non troppo' means. With Despax/Tzigane I hear 'non' troppo', but not 'Allegro'. With Triendl/Fritsch I hear both.
Harriet Smith's review in this month's Gramophone is very positive about the Bronsart, but not about the Urspruch (but still preferring Triendl's to Despax's interpretation of the latter).
I have been following the discussion re the Urspruch PC with interest' especially the nutty problems re tempo - to me the CPO recording gets it just about right - an Allegro ma non troppo with a 12/8 flowing feel. I think the main trouble with the first movement is that Urspruch does not seem seem to modulate far enough from the tonic key for a movement of that length - it spends far too much of its time in E flat major, of which the ear tires greatly after a while. I also do not find there is enough melodic variety for a movement of that length. A pity as otherwise there is much that is beguiling.
There is a score available to purchase and you can see the first page of the score with the Preface for free at https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1449.html. This German company produces a great deal of 'Unsung' material, though at a price!
Oddly, Mahler 8/i has the same "problem" but though it's not my favorite of his symphonies I agree with Schoenberg that in that case the composer somehow knew how not to make it feel like a problem. Urspruch perhaps not so much (I haven't listened to the aircheck I have of the concerto recently but neither has it drawn me back...)
Urspruch/I needs to be kept moving, of that there's no doubt. Despax/Tzigane don't do that.
I hope everyone will forgive me a return to this discussion, and particularly the Bronsart concerto. I will readily admit that the Despax/Tzigane (DT) Hyperion recording is superior to the old Ponti/Kapp (PK) in just about every way: recording, playing and interpretation. However, listening to them next to one another I am struck by how much more energetic and in a way I can't really explain, "natural", the PK sounds.
I think I have a theory for this, which is that Bronsart's concerto, despite its melodic attractiveness, is not all that great. It has great energy and vigor, but sometimes the writing is a bit trite, the left and right hand don't work together that well (e.g., the DT, 3rd mvt, 5:43 vs. PK 5:21) and the orchestral writing is solid but not overly colorful. In the PK, the soloists's and orchestra's sloppiness mask a lot of that, but I think this is a case where a superior recording actually creates its own problem by exposing the composition's shortcomings. I may be alone in this, but I still find the PK a much more rewarding listen.
I can partly chime in with this, because Ponti got me listening to many works that would otherwise never have been heard. So in that sense, I think he (and other people featured on those Vox LPs) were pioneers. My reservation about Ponti concerns his idiosyncracies; for a first and often only recording, I'd have preferred something a tad more "safe". In the case of Bronsart's concerto, though, I think he was arguably the best candidate.