Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: JeremyMHolmes on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 14:08

Title: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: JeremyMHolmes on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 14:08
On its way:
https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7350 (https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7350)

Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 15:30
Finally... the early concertos of Stanford. This is a must buy for me.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 16:05
Plus the early Concert Overture (1870).
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Richard Moss on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 16:20
Their web-site says "...released March 18th...".  How did this escape early notice by our hawk-eyed members?  An absolutely 'must buy' if ever there was one!

Richard
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 16:48
No idea. Checked the website myself a day or two ago. Perhaps it hadn't been updated.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 17:56
Marvellous to have these early works. Well done, Dutton!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 28 March 2018, 18:59
Whoop-de-doo!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: semloh on Friday 30 March 2018, 03:36
This really is an exciting release - surely guaranteed to bring out the plastic card!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 14 April 2018, 13:16
The Concert Overture of 1870, a live performance of which under Yates (but with a different orchestra) is available in our Downloads Board (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6517.0.html), is a youthful piece and with its Mendelssohnian joi de vivre it sounds it. It's nothing like mature Stanford, but it's an enjoyable work which suits the size of the orchestra very well  - too much weight and its lightness of touch would be undermined. The same is true of the Piano Concerto in B flat: once again, anyone expecting the Stanford of the majestic Second Concerto is going to be disappointed. The excellent booklet note gives Sterndale Bennett as a possible influence, and that's certainly credible although I think the work slighter in its outer movements than Bennett's mature work. The slow movement is absolutely lovely and points to some of the things which the older Stanford would achieve, whilst the opening Allegro moderato never quite takes off and the tail-chasing finale comes closest to outstaying its welcome. That said, this is an engaging and melodious piece which, while plumbing no depths, is certainly worth an occasional listen.

The Violin Concerto in D major, though, is a real find. It dates from 1875, only two years later than the Piano Concerto, but it is a much more assured and impressive piece of work. At almost 16 minutes the confident opening movement is long, but it justifies its length with dramatic, and almost swaggering, music. Stanford's material and orchestration are much more individual than in the earlier works and one doesn't in any way have the impression of it being a piece of juvenilia - if I was reminded of anyone else, it was the Joachim of the Hungarian Violin Concerto. The slow movement is a similarly expansive rhapsody, leading to a fine central climax, and followed by more reflective lyricism. It leads attacca into the upbeat finale, which is around half the length of the other two movements and might best be regarded as an appendage to its predecessor. It's attractive music which does its job well enough, but it's the weakest and least individual movement.

Both soloists acquit themselves superbly and the Royal Northern Sinfonia under Martin Yates never sound overstretched. The Violin Concerto is the star of this particular show, but the other two pieces aren't negligible and will also give enjoyment, albeit at a more modest level.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 14 April 2018, 16:36
Mark has it spot-on: it's the early VC that's worth the price of the CD. But remember: these are very early works - even the latest (the VC) was written when Stanford was only 23. And it's an outstanding and ambitious piece - at 37 minutes not far off the scale of Brahms' VC which had yet to be written.

By the way: the orchestra make an absolutely first-rate contribution to the success of these recordings. Another feather in Martin Yates' already well-stocked cap.

Oh, and I can't hear any Sterndale Bennett in the PC - this is distinctly the work of a composer of a later generation, particularly orchestrally.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 10:17
Gramophone magazine has done it again! Andrew Mellor, in reviewing the CD (July issue, pp.51-52), confuses this early VC with Stanford's VC Op.74 - a completely different work written a quarter of a century later - recommending the Hyperion recording of the latter in preference to the one on Dutton! I telephoned the publishers on 020 7738 5454, asking to be put through to the Gramophone editorial office, and was told that Gramophone will probably print an erratum. If I were Dutton, I'd be fuming! It might be a good idea if others phoned up to point out this egregious error...
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Jimfin on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 10:28
So Gramophone actually claimed to have listened to both recordings and didn't know it was a different work? Someone should be barred from music criticism for life!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 12:23
Outrageous - makes one wonder if they really listen to a piece thoroughly or just hear a few bit and pieces here and there and hack out a so-called review!
I'm slowly going trough the CD. The Violin Concerto is a real gem - No masterpiece, I agree, but it's marvelously constructed and there's so much going on in it I'm falling for it every time I listen to it.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 12:34
Outrageous indeed, but why am I not surprised? I stopped buying the arrogant and awful "Gramophone" over 10 years ago. Saved a lot of money.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 12:49
I love the "probably".
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: JimL on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 12:57
And Mellor probably won't get so much as a reprimand.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: JeremyMHolmes on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 19:19
Is he any relation to the ex-MP and self-styled classical music buff currently on Classic FM?
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 19:42
I don't think so.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 20 June 2018, 21:17
No: his two sons are Frederick and Anthony.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853600/Forget-taxi-drivers-Look-Mellor-abused-closest-reveal-happened-notorious-affair.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2853600/Forget-taxi-drivers-Look-Mellor-abused-closest-reveal-happened-notorious-affair.html)
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: semloh on Thursday 21 June 2018, 07:26
I am sorry to hear about that review. I was a regular reader of Gramophone 40-45 years ago, and it was informative and reliable, albeit in a very 'conservative' way. Its standards have obviously fallen dramatically. A published apology and a fresh review would seem in order.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 21 June 2018, 07:56
I told them that an erratum was insufficient and that they need to publish a completely revised review.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Revilod on Friday 22 June 2018, 15:45
Yes. I spotted this error. Mr Mellor compares the recording quality of the two discs and seems not to notice that they are two different concertos!  How could this happen? Both in D major,  I suppose! It's not much to be proud of but my Amazon review doesn't make that mistake!!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 22 June 2018, 16:06
It's sheer incompetence. Nothing less. The man ought to be tied to a chair and made to listen to the two pieces until he can tell the difference...

(https://previews.123rf.com/images/ximagination/ximagination1202/ximagination120200145/12150148-mad-customer-service-staff-tied-up-on-chair.jpg)
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Revilod on Friday 22 June 2018, 19:57
Blimey, Alan! Is that an electric chair? A bit harsh perhaps!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 22 June 2018, 22:07
Je ne tweet pas.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 22 June 2018, 22:11
Ni moi non plus. A little less tweeting and rather more listening from Mr Mellor might help. Come to think of it we could do with a lot less tweeting all round.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: matesic on Saturday 23 June 2018, 07:47
Unfortunately I missed the original review and I now see it's been "amended to correct a factual error".  So now there are 3 Stanford violin concertos, 2 of them in D major. I think Dutton themselves must take a little of the blame for not quoting the opus number on the front cover (and presumably not being explicit in the sleeve notes?).
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Saturday 23 June 2018, 08:31
These are works without Opus numbers, unpublished and we are damn lucky they didn't just vanish like so many unpublished scores. In any case while reviewing a work the critic is supposed to listen to the work and not just assume based on opus numbers.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 23 June 2018, 08:38
And how could he compare the recordings of the VCs without having listened to them? Reading the sleeve notes would have helped too - an aspect of the disk which should also have formed part of his review. No, Dutton are entirely blameless. This is on a par with the drama critic who writes a review of the play he has not bothered to see!
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 23 June 2018, 09:23
Perhaps he did listen to them and couldn't tell the difference! The ultimate in incompetence...
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: matesic on Saturday 23 June 2018, 14:12
I'm not wishing to exonerate Mellor in any way (did anyone make a copy of his original review they could post here, for general amusement?), but if I'd been a potential buyer I might well have assumed it was the Op.74 concerto. Maybe Dutton could have put 1875 in brackets on the front cover to signal this isn't Stanford's best known D major violin concerto?

Of course, even the Op.74 hardly qualifies as "well-known". I have Anthony Marwood's CD and have enjoyed it on several occasions, but still probably wouldn't recognise an excerpt. This could be just my dodgy memory, but I wonder if Mellor's blunder illustrates a wider point about unsung composers and neglected repertoire. The virtual juke box of musical snippets in my head includes a vast  number of tunes (complete with harmony, instrumental colour and mood) from all the "great" composers but practically nothing of Stanford's apart from a few pieces I've actually played. It also includes a comprehensive store of popular songs from the 60's and 70's that I'm not hugely proud of, plus a few more recent acquisitions that I've found particularly enjoyable. To my shame, I can't recall a single snippet from a female classical composer.

I'd be very interested to hear from other enthusiasts of neglected repertoire (i.e. you all), as to how much of it you can voluntarily bring to mind?
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: JimL on Saturday 23 June 2018, 14:30
I know the Stanford Op. 74 and could recognize a snippet from it if I heard it on the radio within seconds.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: matesic on Saturday 23 June 2018, 15:54
Recognition is certainly one level up from my memory of this piece, but can anyone here spontaneously whistle or imagine any of it? I suspect the vast majority of pieces that we come to know that well are those we first encountered in our youth or early adulthood.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 23 June 2018, 16:15
For those who can read music, this (http://imslp.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_No.1%2C_Op.74_(Stanford%2C_Charles_Villiers)) may help jog memories of the Op.74 concerto (or introduce one to its outlines- though only that, as it's a reduction.)
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 23 June 2018, 16:50
Although we're likely to be off-topic pretty swiftly here, I'd say that familiarity is mostly a function of how often one has listened to a particular piece of music. For example, I've had Klughardt 4 as my in-car entertainment for months and I now know it as well as any symphony by anyone else and would recognise it from just a few bars of any of its movements. I've even had a break from it and found that, on replaying the CD, I still knew exactly what was coming - as anyone listening to me humming in the car would testify!

As far as the two Stanford VCs in D are concerned, the very least I can remember is that the earlier work begins with a theme in which the trumpet features prominently, whereas Op.74 begins in a veritable 'twitter' of woodwind writing. I can't even imagine confusing the two.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 23 June 2018, 18:51
They are, as you say Alan, distinctly different. But there is no excuse whatsoever for Mellor. It doesn't matter that they are written in the same key. They are two distinct works and they can only be compared (as clearly Mellor purports to do) by listening to them "side by side" as it were. This he, equally clearly, failed to do. He was simply arrogant and lazy - and has been found out, and serve him (and "Gramophone", which long ago lost all claims to be the periodical of quality and integrity founded by Compton Mackenzie) right.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 23 June 2018, 20:27
Here's the amended review, plus 'explanation' (but no apology), at the Gramophone website:

There's no question what constitutes the main course here and what the hors d'oeuvres. Stanford's D major Violin Concerto dates from his time in Leipzig and counted among its consultants none other than Joseph Joachim. Despite the shadows of Mendelssohn and Schumann, the score represents the Irish composer at his clipped, neat best, where restraint fuels both nobility and rapture.

The concerto's 16 minute opening movement, framed by stuttering, tripping ideas from soloist and orchestra respectively, includes a fantasy development of novelty and charm. The 14 minute Intermezzo carries an atmosphere of reposeful fortitude, like a person sitting quietly yet thinking ferociously. After a rigorous cadenza that movement tumbles into a freewheeling Allegretto scherzando finale, a rare example of a composer from these islands putting a convincing stamp on an established central-European design. Sergey Levitin, best known as Covent Garden's co concertmaster, revels in the music's sturdy vigour and meets its technical challenges but his tone is neither particularly rich nor sweet.

The unnumbered Piano Concerto of 1873, a precursor to Stanford's three mature examples, does appear to be a newcomer. As Jeremy Dibble's rich but diplomatic booklet notes suggest, it's less ambitious and far shorter than its concertante bedfellow here but interesting to hear despite its rather bloodless piano-writing and lack of sweeping momentum. Leon McCawley does his best with it. But, as in the Concert Overture of 1870, it's in the small details – enchanting writing for winds and miniature adventures in tonality – that we sense a composer getting into his stride.

This review was amended on June 22, 2018 to correct a factual error.
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/stanford-piano-concerto-violin-concerto (https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/stanford-piano-concerto-violin-concerto)
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 23 June 2018, 20:34
...which, of course, is totally inadequate. It's an explanation without actually explaining what the 'factual error' was; an amended review published only on the website and without an apology. It's the ultimate slap in the face to those who have kept faith with this dumbed-down publication, but will do so no longer. And it's both rubbish journalism and incompetent editorial work. I mean, do they think we're stupid?

Wonder what Dutton are planning to do?
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: matesic on Sunday 24 June 2018, 09:24
I'm sure most of you are familiar with Nicolas Slonimsky's Lexicon of Musical Invective. Mellor can't be accused of ill-judged invective, but he joins a select company of critics who have made complete fools of themselves in print. Like Slonimsky, I think amusement on our part is more appropriate than pompous indignation. What do we expect the Gramophone to do - crawl on its hands and knees to Westminster Abbey?

The danger of criticism is that you'll always be ridiculed sooner or later. I'd love to hear (once) Stanford's Ode to Discord in the hope that the music is funnier than the words - apparently he had Debussy and Strauss particularly in mind! Yes I know, well off topic.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 24 June 2018, 13:06
QuoteWhat do we expect the Gramophone to do - crawl on its hands and knees to Westminster Abbey?

A grovelling apology would do, i.e. metaphorical sackcloth and ashes. And why not, after all?
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: matesic on Sunday 24 June 2018, 14:21
About as much chance of getting an apology as from a politician, or a surgeon, or a conductor. Actually I recall I once wrote a pompous letter of complaint to the Gramophone after they first introduced their "Artist of the Year", chosen purely at the whim of the editor. I didn't get an apology but a very nice letter of support from Lionel Salter who felt the reviewers were being subverted.
Title: Re: Stanford VC (1875) & PC (1873) from Dutton
Post by: FBerwald on Sunday 24 June 2018, 14:30
I completely agree with you @matesic but we are all really put off by this and this forum is a safe place to vent (within reason!).

In anycase there seems to be a substantial change in concert performances judging by the 2018 schedules and it's very encouraging to see more unsung repertoire being performed. Change takes time. Maybe Gramophone will catch up, maybe it won't but I don't think it has as much influence as it did before.