Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: britishcomposer on Sunday 07 July 2019, 14:29

Title: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: britishcomposer on Sunday 07 July 2019, 14:29
Dear members,

The NDR Radiophilharmonie conducted by Leo McFall has recorded the first two symphonies by Emilie Mayer.
The announcer said that the CD will be released by cpo at the end of the year.
If you do not want to wait, you can access the stream for a couple of weeks here:
https://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/epg/Der-weibliche-Beethoven,sendung927880.html (https://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/epg/Der-weibliche-Beethoven,sendung927880.html)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 07 July 2019, 17:05
Very good news - thanks. Shame the programme's called 'The Female Beethoven' (a) because she's not an epigone of him, nor his contemporary and (b) because she's not a female anyone - she's a composer in her own right, and a fine one at that.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 07 July 2019, 18:24
I'll very much look forward to hearing them.

QuoteThe announcer said that the CD will be released by cpo at the end of the year.
Ah, but knowing cpo, which year I wonder?
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 07 July 2019, 19:21
Year? That's a flexible term...
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 08 July 2019, 08:27
In the meantime, recordings of both symphonies from the broadcast are available in our Downloads board here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,7302.0.html). When the cpo CD is released they'll be removed, of course.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Richard Moss on Monday 08 July 2019, 10:12
Mark,

Tks v much for the prompt upload (I'd tried to get the symphonies extracted from Alan's link but both me and my technology were unfortunately not up to the task).

Her previously available symphony (No. 4, IIRC?) and her piano concerto have both provided a delightful listening so I'm hoping these continue the pleasure.

Given the comment in the NDR blurb about her being the first full-time professional composer, one wonders how she achieved that in a male-dominated Victorian-era Germany!  Some woman-  in both character as well as ability! (and as Alan quite rightly says, gender should be irrelevant - talent is all.

Cheers

Richard
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 08 July 2019, 11:45
Thanks Richard. The First Symphony is a confident work, well-balanced and lively, built on a set of strong and memorable themes. It's an impressive symphonic debut which reminded me both of Schumann's symphonies and the later ones of Ries, without being derivative of either. The Symphony No.2 is an even more individual work it seems to me, with a dramatic opening movement substantially longer than any of the other three and particularly colourful orchestration for the time (late 1840s). Elsewhere, Mayer seems able to relax more in this work, which is thematically just as memorable as No.1. Each symphony is around 30 minutes long and, needless to say, is never in any danger of outstaying its welcome. All in all, these enjoyable pieces serve to underline the depth of Mayer's talent, and they get the enthusiastic and convincing performances they deserve.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 08 July 2019, 12:12
Spot-on, Mark. There's some fine music here. Thanks for uploading it and its companion for us.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 10 July 2019, 11:55
So, might Farrenc and Mayer perhaps be the two finest female symphonists of the nineteenth century?
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 10 July 2019, 12:31
I initially found No.1 more convincing than No.2: it seems to have a more concentrated feel to it, whereas No.2 is more relaxed, especially in that ambitious opening movement. However, that may simply mean that I need a couple more listens to 'get' what Mayer is doing in No.2. Both are fine works, not far off the quality of her later symphonies. It is sincerely to be hoped that one day we may have a complete cycle.

According to Wikipedia these are Mayer's symphonies:

Symphony No. 1 in C Minor (premièred before 4 March 1847)
Symphony No. 2 in E Minor (premièred before 4 March 1847)
Symphony No. 3 in C Major "Military" (premièred 21 April 1850)
Symphony No. 4 in B Minor (premièred 16 March 1851)
Symphony No. 5 in D Major (premièred 1 May 1852) - presumed lost
Symphony No. 6 in E Major (premièred 25 April 1853)
Symphony No. 7 in F Minor (1855-56 ; premièred in April 1862) - mislabelled on the Dreyer Gaido CD as "No. 5"
Symphony No. 8 in F Major (1856-57 ; premièred in March 1862) - presumed lost

Do we know if this listing is correct?
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Double-A on Thursday 11 July 2019, 03:15
A few years ago I tried to typeset No. 1.  I got the impression that the composer checked all the boxes needed for a sonata form and that the music was sort of predictable (on Mayer's level).  So I gave up on it.  I had before typeset the quartet in e-minor and there Mayer bent the form to her vision.  Coming from there it seemed to me that in this first attempt at a symphony she did the opposite.  These are just impressions, not analytically supported observations; I might well have been wrong about the symphony.

Another speculation:  Maybe no. 1 is more immediately convincing because it is in c-minor, a key that seems to come with a "bonus", at least since Beethoven.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: semloh on Saturday 20 July 2019, 00:50
Thanks to Mark for making these recordings available to us.  :)
I'm looking forward to hearing them. Emilie Mayer was certainly a remarkable person and fine composer.

......well, Listening to these has been a pleasure, and I think Mark's comments hit the spot. The 2nd symphony is confident and flows so naturally, especially the 3rd movement - a real delight.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Sharkkb8 on Tuesday 24 March 2020, 05:38
Quote
QuoteThe announcer said that the CD will be released by cpo at the end of the year.
Ah, but knowing cpo, which year I wonder?

Didn't happen "by the end of the year", but here we are.  Don't see it at Presto or Amazon quite yet.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-1-2/hnum/8992791 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-1-2/hnum/8992791)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 24 March 2020, 11:38
It's not actually available yet - even from jpc. However, you can set up an email alert to let you know when it can be ordered.

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w220/front/0/0761203529322.jpg)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: hyperdanny on Thursday 28 May 2020, 15:00
unless I am not searching properly, it is not reappearing on jpc...along with the removal of the Eberl 4 from the Sony cd, this is my current biggest musical matter of dismay.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 28 May 2020, 16:36
Btw I hope the Minnesota Sinfonia reschedules their planned performance of her first symphony from March to later this year if possible!
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 03 July 2020, 17:56
The new cpo recording is now available for purchase from jpc:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-1-2/hnum/8992791 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-1-2/hnum/8992791)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 03 July 2020, 19:28
Latest Records International, too.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 08 July 2020, 04:11
I just received a digital file of the CPO recording and it is a fine one although I have nothing to compare it with. Someone said to me she is a female Beethoven which I don't think so. She has her own unique style.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Hector on Wednesday 08 July 2020, 20:10
A female Beethoven? Given the extant portraits I can't imagine that would be a pretty.


Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: hyperdanny on Thursday 09 July 2020, 10:57
I'm not PC-obsessed, but still....if we where talking about a male composer, I don't think that "prettiness", or the lack of it, would ever be a matter of discussion, for sure not above of before musical value.
it's true that Mayer gets this stale female-Beethoven label for I believe commercial reasons, but we're not selling cd's, we buy them and discuss them...we should know better, especially considering the tremendous stature and individuality of her music.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Hector on Thursday 09 July 2020, 13:25
1. It was a joke at Beethoven's expense not Mayer's.
2. It satirises the pointlessness of the comparison to Beethoven - for the reasons explained above!
3. It contains an accidental 'a'.
4. I may well acquire the Mayer Cd.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 09 July 2020, 15:27
I certainly took it as such, Hector - and it gave me a chuckle. Beethoven was also known to be rather a dirty man and is said to have told one young lady who complained to him of his unwashed appearance: "When I am famous and wealthy, no one will care." One would hope that Emile Mayer's personal hygiene was everything that should be expected of a young lady of the period.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 09 July 2020, 17:49
And with that, let us return from the finer points of 19th century toilette to music.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Kevin on Saturday 11 July 2020, 14:54
I'm intrigued by Mayer I would like to know if this double CD is worth getting: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8495695--mayer-symphony-no-4
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: dhibbard on Saturday 11 July 2020, 14:58
I found that CD on Amazon also a while back esp. the Piano Concerto??   any thoughts??
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 11 July 2020, 15:04
For that CD, please refer to this thread:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6950.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6950.0.html)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Kevin on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 12:07
I was disappointed in this release. The symphonies never struck me as being individual enough, of course that's to be expected for a composers first attempt, still it doesn't make for pleasant listening experience. They sound melodically too similar to Schumann as well, blandly orchestrated to boot. I actually feel bad I didn't enjoy them more because I was looking forward to them. Maybe it's just me. (the performance is good, I've got no other reference to go by though)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 16:00
hmm...  interesting I had the same thought... I had to look again at my CD player to assure I was not listening to Schumann or others.   
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 17:54
I think the comparison of Mayer's first two symphonies with Schumann is unfair to Mayer. These are evidently early attempts at the form; her later symphonies, e.g. nos. 4 and 7, are rather more striking.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Kevin on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 18:22
Well, those two symphonies would have to be very striking indeed because my enthusiasm for Mayer is very low at the moment I'm afraid. That's something I've got to live with, not liking every unsung composer out there.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 18:31
I quite like other music of hers I've heard, and the complaints so far leveled at the CD don't really land with me since nothing's been said about form (not sonata form or textbook, but whether- and students sometimes manage this- the work's sense of timing and rightness, the use of material, compel to the ear; the timing part, in particular, is essential. Give me a composer who seems to understand that and I can overlook a lot. Rheinberger is not "original" (though his themes are very memorable) but his best chamber music has a terrific sense of timing...)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 18:32
Where did you find the Symphony no 7?    and yes, the Symphony no 4 on Capriccio label is impressive.. I agree with you there Alan.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 18:33
Symphony no.7 once called 5 in F minor was recorded awhile back I think.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 18:37
oh  is that the one on the Deyer label that I understand now is mislabled as Sym 5?    How could they record the symphony and not check the titles..etc??   
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 19:28
Name change/reconsideration/discoveries that led to reconsiderations, as with some similar changes in Rufinatscha's case, may have been recent, and maybe the disc doesn't sell well enough to make a new cover design [profitable], or something.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 22 July 2020, 19:36
see the first page of this thread (btw unless our download is a drastically different performance by the same people...)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Kevin on Thursday 23 July 2020, 06:08
I'm getting very confused... so her 'proper' symphony no. 5 is the one lost right?
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 23 July 2020, 07:46
This post (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,7301.msg77140.html#msg77140) by Alan explains all.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Kevin on Thursday 23 July 2020, 08:03
I wonder what's the story with those two symphonies being lost? It's not often that happens.

For the sake of Mayer fans out there I really CPO records all her extant symphonies(maybe they already have?)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 23 July 2020, 13:17
Not often that two symphonies are lost, or that only two symphonies are lost? As to the former I disagree very strongly (in fact I'm not sure I follow you - only one of her symphonies was published at all, even being published is no guarantee of preservation, and manuscripts are far more fragile), as to the latter you're probably right.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 23 July 2020, 13:30
btw the interesting notes to the new recording are available (for those of us like me who are, it is true, unlikely to acquire it at least for quite some time, given some alternatives that have popped up this year) @ Chandos.net (https://www.chandos.net/chanimages/Booklets/CX5293.pdf) and also (page 16 of PDF) list her symphonies (same list as on Wikipedia, I think.)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: gprengel on Sunday 20 February 2022, 01:40
Today her 2nd symphony was presented here with the beautiful score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLxEmW9RFEU
It's the first time I heard something by her. Whereas the first 3 movements don't convince me very much I really enjoyed the Finale !!!
I will try to get to know now also her other symphonies ...
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: icharters on Tuesday 22 February 2022, 15:22
Harrogate Philharmonic Orchestra (UK) performed the 1st Symphony a couple of weeks ago - probably the first UK performance.  Players loved rehearsing it and the audience greatly enjoyed it.    I typeset the parts from the IMSLP manuscript and can be hired from our library if anyone wants to give it another airing. A couple of passages in the last movement needed to be simplified to be playable but otherwise well written and lots of interest for all parts.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 22 February 2022, 16:38
Congratulations - and welcome to UC!
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 29 March 2025, 11:56
It is at JPC now ... - here (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-1-2/hnum/8992791). I could compare the timings of these recordings to the ones in our uploads folder to see if they're the same ones and not just the same performers, if not already done? Sorry about the almost-5-year gap...
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 29 March 2025, 12:56
That'd be very helpful, Eric - thank you.
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 01 April 2025, 03:06
Symphony 1: the first three tracks are identical within a second; the finale is 8:22 in our upload and 8:27 on cpo (I'll see if I can stream the cpo recording on Amazon - I suspect the difference isn't significant but will try to prove it.)
Symphony 2: 11:08/6:41/6:13/6:41 (upload);
11:08/6:41/6:11/6:39 (cpo, per Presto Music.)
Title: Re: Emilie Mayer - Symphonies Nos. 1 and 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 01 April 2025, 10:26
Thanks, Eric. Do let us know your final verdict - if and when you have the time.