Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 March 2020, 23:21

Title: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 March 2020, 23:21
Conductor Jakub Hrůša has now recorded the Asrael Symphony for a second(!) time:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1-OpCRyP7L._AC_AA360_.jpg)
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B00RUF8Z82/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B00RUF8Z82/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AN1VRQENFRJN5&psc=1)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODczNjc1NS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzAwfSwidG9Gb3JtYXQiOiJqcGVnIiwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX19LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODExNTMxMTZ9)
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8736755--suk-symphony-no-2-asrael (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8736755--suk-symphony-no-2-asrael)
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 March 2020, 23:23
There was a time when the only recording (spottily available) was Talich on Supraphon. I first heard the work at King's College, Cambridge in the mid-seventies and wondered whether I would ever get to hear a recording...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 30 March 2020, 23:09
Here's a review of Hrůša's BR Klassik recording:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Mar/Suk_Asrael_900188.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Mar/Suk_Asrael_900188.htm)
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: dhibbard on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 04:17
Has it come to the point now that we have several performances of the same work??   Surely, there must be composers out there whose works have Never been recorded?

  I have 2 sets of Suk's Asrael Symphony, and yes it is a wonderful work.... but come on..... perhaps it may take the few of us working with Sibelius+Note Performer to make these scores come to life where some orchestra somewhere decides to record it after getting several thousand views on YouTube.   At least the technology is there to make those old dusty scores sitting in a library shelf come to life.     A score of approx 200 pages takes about 1500 -2000 hours to typeset.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 09:22
I agree - to a certain extent. In my lifetime Suk's great symphony has been on a journey from more or less total obscurity to partial public recognition - an example, in other words, of how all may not be lost in the long run for unsung music. The problem, of course, is that it is very much the exception - and has had the inestimable advantage of advocacy from some great conductors, starting with Václav Talich in 1952...

Personally, I think persuading conductors to take up unsung music is the way to go...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Joachim Raff on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 19:44
I would say Suk is unsung but his  'Asrael' has a number of exceptional recordings. Its a marvellous piece. I have the  Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Jiří Bělohlávek recording on Decca.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: der79sebas on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 22:02
QuotePersonally, I think persuading conductors to take up unsung music is the way to go...

After years of futile trying to convice conductors I found out that it is definitely not, as conductors have surprisingly little influence on concert programms. Persuading the chiefs/managers of the orchestras is the way to go. And still, this will not work out as long as there is no printed score of a piece, since orchestras nowadays are nearly completely unwilling to play with handwritten material. So, the reference to "Sibelius+Note Performer" is quite correct, but be sure to provide a pdf instead of a synthetic "performance".
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 22:17
QuoteAnd still, this will not work out as long as there is no printed score of a piece, since orchestras nowadays are nearly completely unwilling to play with handwritten material

I have come across this reluctance before. It is a great pity - and I can see no excuse for it if the parts are clearly written (there are cases where they are rather poor, I know, but mostly, I think this is not the case).
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 22:32
QuoteAfter years of futile trying to convice conductors I found out that it is definitely not, as conductors have surprisingly little influence on concert programms. Persuading the chiefs/managers of the orchestras is the way to go.

That's a good point. However, there does seem to have been a conductor-led revival of Asrael. And I'm convinced that, for example, Neeme Järvi's advocacy of unsung music has nothing to do with managers and everything to with his powers of persuasion. After all, he's conducted and recorded with a huge number of orchestras all over the world...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 31 March 2020, 23:53
OTOH, a manager who wants a more mainstream program might advocate a different conductor's being hired.
I seem to recall Henry Fogel writing that he had some influence (in association probably-with- the conductors and others) on the choices of particular works (Schmidt symphonies, etc?) when he had a position with the Chicago Symphony but I may be misremembering.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 April 2020, 12:46
Hrůša's earlier account on the Exton label is, by the way, a white-hot performance - probably because it was recorded live. The new recording on BR Klassik is 2:40 longer overall.

There's definitely something to be said for these Japanese releases. They're well played by top-class orchestras, about which we know next nothing, and offer superb recorded sound.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Kevin on Sunday 12 April 2020, 07:19
It's somewhat surprising to me Suk's more popular nowadays than Fibich who I regard a better composer. Don't get me wrong The Asrael symphony is glorious and I enjoy and admire A Summers Tale maybe even the Ripening but his out put is tiny and gets very difficult to listen to near the end with Epiloug and even the Ripening. Fibich's 3 symphonies, 6 tone poems, 2 overtures and three great operas: Bride of Messiana, Tempest and Sarka are far greater than what Suk ever dreamed up of. It also shocks me The Czechs are complelty indifferent to Fibich and are what the kids might say today ''meh'' towards him. They don't understand his true worth.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 12 April 2020, 09:37
That's where I disagree. Fibich's music is truly lovely, but Suk's is unique. Fibich never wrote anything of the originality and 'profile' of Asrael.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 13 April 2020, 14:24
Fibich died in 1900. Suk died in 1935, and his later music  - even as early as the 2nd string quartet op.31 (one of my favorites among his works)- suggests, not so much in its harmonies (which are rarely a good temporal place marker) as much more importantly in its surface disjointedness , its odd juxtapositions (but held together in a good performance)- these show the signs of the (1911) times.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 13 April 2020, 17:12
You're right, of course, Eric. Composers from two different generations.

Quotehis out put is tiny
Really?>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Josef_Suk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Josef_Suk)
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 07:04
QuoteFibich never wrote anything of the originality and 'profile' of Asrael.

Oh yes he did. Its called The Bride of Messina. According to Grove online its the greatest 19th century Czech tragic opera, which I tend to agree with John Tyrell.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 08:33
Thanks for the tip. I haven't played that opera in years. Back soon...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 08:40
I don't think you'll like it... it's all declamation, which doesn't bother me at all. I enjoyed the CPO release which was released a while back to.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 08:49
I have the classic Supraphon recording from 1975. We'll see...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 11:23
...which is brilliantly cast - such that listening is a pleasure in itself. And it's a fine opera, I agree. What I don't really sense, though, is a recognisably personal musical style - and it's not exactly chock-full of memorable material as with the great operas. It also seems to me to fall between the two stools of Wagner and a fully national style. But it's a significant achievement which I'm pleased to have re-acquainted myself with. Thank you!
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 11:31
I'm very happy to hear that! I like nothing better than converting people over to became Fibich fans. Next up: Sarka. Eva Urbanová is in resplendent form as Sarka(pronounced SHAAR-KA) on Orfeo...
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 14 April 2020, 11:35
I already have that. We'll see...

Meanwhile, back to Suk.
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Kevin on Wednesday 15 April 2020, 10:31
This box set is one of the finest Suk collections around, contains all his major orchestral works(sans the serenade) and very special and informed performances. Neumann's account of Asrael is truly wonderful and nigh definite for me. https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7943061--suk-asrael-symphony-a-summers-tale-the-ripening-other-orchestral-works

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/suk-asrael-a-summers-tale-the-ripening-epilogue-praga-fairy-tale-jan-galla-zora-jehlickova-ivan-kusnjer-bruno-belcik-petr-skvor-vaclav-neumann-libor-pesek-lubomir-matl-czech-philharmonic-prague-philharmonic-choir/qod3ygvwtbosb
Title: Re: Suk Asrael Symphony x2 from Hrůša
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 15 April 2020, 11:34
Yes - and superb value, too.