Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Monday 27 April 2020, 22:20

Title: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 27 April 2020, 22:20
...now out from cpo, including symphonies 1 & 3:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 07:48
Lovely. I have a special affection for Reinecke. I've strangely never listened to his 3 symphonies. I finally began to appreciate his flute concerto on a earlier CPO, hopefully this new release turns out well too.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 10:21
No.1's early and not that interesting, but No.3 is a superb late-ish work (composed 1894), thus post-dating Brahms' symphonies.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 10:26
Nice. I seem to recall reading somewhere his second symphony has programmatic elements? something like a symphonic poem... or am I mixing up with someone else?
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: hyperdanny on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 10:47
correct : the 2nd bears the subtitle "Hakon Jarl" and it refers to an obscure (or, at least, forgotten) Norwegian historical tragedy.
But it's nothing like programmatic music, Reinecke said it himself, and for all the world it just sound like a very high-quality "absolute" symphony of its time.
It's actually my favorite..and I have a deep aversion to symphonic poems as a form.
Very excited about what appears to be a new cycle...for 2&3 the Chandos release (good, but not stellar IMHO) has lonely carried the burden of catalogue representation for 20 years!
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 10:51
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 28 April 2020, 20:01
Both of Reinecke's Håkon Jarl (symphony and choral ballad) and Smetana's too, probably refer ultimately to Håkon Sigurdarson, ruler (for all intents etc) of Norway from about 975 to 995, via a play by the at the time (Romantic, not Medieval) better-known poet Adam Oehlenschlager. (Some of whose stuff I've seen mentioned before- Nielsen's Aladdin op.34, eg, is music to one of his plays.)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on Thursday 30 April 2020, 07:39
Rather strange 'Orchestral Works vol.1'... cpo already has Symphony nr.1 on cd https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Carl-Heinrich-Reinecke-1824-1910-Violinkonzert-op-141/hnum/3926301 and years ago the 4 pianoconcertos were released (1994?). Are they starting all over again?
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 30 April 2020, 10:41
Maybe the series will be 'orchestra only'...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Thursday 30 April 2020, 10:55
More Reinecke the better if you ask me.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 30 April 2020, 11:16
Absolutely!!!
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 May 2020, 19:12
This is worth reading about Symphony No.3:
https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1215.pdf (https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1215.pdf)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: dhibbard on Friday 01 May 2020, 20:03
Thanks for that link!
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 06 May 2020, 10:46
My copy of the new cpo recording has apparently been sent by jpc, but the CD has now been pulled from their website. It's the same with the release of Emilie Mayer's Symphonies 1 & 2. Wonder what's going on?
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Wednesday 06 May 2020, 10:54
Must be something to do with covid-19, the whole world seems in daze right now.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 06 May 2020, 10:58
Actually, on closer inspection of what was sent according to my account at jpc, the Reinecke CD was not included.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 07 May 2020, 12:34
And yet today the Reinecke arrived! How strange. Anyway: report to follow...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 07 May 2020, 14:23
Timings of the three available recordings of Symphony No.3 may be instructive here:

                                        I           II         III        IV         TT
Shelley/Chandos              9:11      8:38     6:42    8:16     33:02
Beissel/Christophorus       9:16    10:28     6:44    8:37     35:05
Raudales/cpo                   8:27      8:55     6:27    8:21     32:23

The first impression is how fiercely Raudales tears into the first movement - and then how much more dynamic the finale is too, with the coda so much more convincing (because it is given with real punch) than under either Shelley or Beissel. There's no doubt in my mind that this is the recording to demonstrate the quality of this work. It emerges freshly minted here.

Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 May 2020, 17:03
Raudales' performance of No.3 is way, way better than Beissel or Shelley. The orchestral response is absolutely electrifying throughout (the Munich Radio Orchestra are clearly the best band), the recording quality is clear and weighty, and the performance just has more dynamism - it's as if the conductor really believes in the music. Reminds me of Carlos Kleiber. This is the best recording of anything involving orchestra by Reinecke I have ever heard.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: edurban on Friday 08 May 2020, 17:22
Yummy.  Looking forward to it. 
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 May 2020, 17:51
Quite so. The problem is that it isn't listed at jpc any more. It appeared just long enough for me to order it, but now it's vanished.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Holger on Friday 08 May 2020, 18:08
For the moment, I would guess that it will reappear later this month. In the past months, jpc / CPO typically have been rather late with announcing their new releases. So I was surprised to see that they already announced their June (actually, late May) novelties (to which the Reinecke disc should belong – it is clearly not part of the May / late April batch) so early. Maybe it was an error or so. Anyway, as Alan got the CD, it must exist, and I tend to believe it will reappear once the next batch of new releases can be found on their website.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 08 May 2020, 18:20
Doesn't seem to be on other sites either. Never heard of this conductor/violinist I thought but I think I have at least heard of some of his other recordings, nicely chosen repertoire, looks like a name to watch at the least...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 May 2020, 20:20
It's amazing - and faintly ridiculous - that Reinecke gets written off as some sort of Mendelssohn/Schumann clone. Symphony No.3 is completely his own and quite clearly the product of a later composer, albeit a conservative one. It's worth another look at this previous thread:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,2775.msg32042.html#msg32042 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,2775.msg32042.html#msg32042)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 15 May 2020, 09:49
And then there are the three excerpts from Reinecke's opera König Manfred of 1866, i.e. the Overture, Romanze from Act 4 and the Prelude to Act 5. Wow! Not only is the music superb - you'd never guess this was by some dry-as-dust academic - it is also superlatively played. Hearing this, you'd think you were listening to a world-leading orchestra and one of the great conductors: there's passion, superb control of dynamics (some of the pianissimi are breathtaking) and wonderful unanimity, especially in the string playing.

This is a disc that should burst the bounds of the standard repertoire. It showcases a major composer in major performances. My candidate for CD Of The Year. And it's only May!
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 15 May 2020, 14:25
The CD is now available (again!) for pre-order. It's new release date is 25th May:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 26 May 2020, 11:42
I recall that David Hurwitz (ClassicsToday) didn't rate Reinecke's 3rd Symphony. But now that we have it in a stellar performance, I wonder whether he'll change his mind. Of course, having dismissed the work...
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-8640/?search=1
...he probably won't even review the new cpo release.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 26 May 2020, 12:08
... are we masochists? there are reviewers of actual insight out there but each time it's his word we wait on instead...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Kevin on Tuesday 26 May 2020, 12:16
Yes, please no more mention of Hurwitz.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 26 May 2020, 13:20
QuoteYes, please no more mention of Hurwitz.

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 26 May 2020, 14:25
OK, message received loud and clear!

Please do post your assessment of the new cpo release, though, if you've ordered it...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: hyperdanny on Thursday 28 May 2020, 11:34
With all respect, I do not understand why we should not mention anymore DH: we may not agree with his opinions, or even dislike his sometimes abrasive manner, but he is a serious and respectable critic.
And he's one that actually listens to, and reviews,  the unsungs, something that for example the Gramophone luminaries do not often deign to do.
Once he totally thrashed, on the grounds of being third rate, downright bad music, a release that I love very much (the Rabaud symphony by Timpani)..I read it, I said well, I do not agree at all, and went on enjoying it like before.
What's the problem?
Or should we just quote those who agree with us?
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Christopher on Thursday 28 May 2020, 12:22
Hear Hear to this.  The retreat into echo chambers in which only like-minded opinions are heard lies at the root of much of what is wrong today.  See "no-platforming" and "safe spaces" at universities.  Don't be afraid of different opinions even when abrasively or caustically expressed.  They are just words.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 28 May 2020, 12:56
Because this is a thread about Reinecke, not Hurwitz. There's already another thread (about Korngold's Symphony) with several Hurwitt related posts. Start a Hurwitt-focused thread by all means.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 28 May 2020, 14:14
Hurwitz is only relevant here if he happens to review this new release. Otherwise let's stick to the release itself, as Mark says.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 28 May 2020, 14:25
what I meant, anyway, was please? stop quoting DH's reviews if one feels one knows in advance he will not provide insight into the matter -at hand- (and as has proven the case here.) In cases where he has something to say, sure. Otherwise- well, with Hanslick, Hiller- the invective was often joined to content...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 28 May 2020, 14:29
OK, and with that, back to Reinecke - and this absolutely superlative new release. Which probably no-one else has heard yet...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: hyperdanny on Thursday 28 May 2020, 14:54
message received and agreed, I was just making a general point to a discussion (admittedly, partly OT) already underway.
Back to the Reinecke..you had a quite peculiar privilege..get a cd for the absolute first..and then it's taken out from sales for a while!
You seem very happy with it..how would you compare it to the Shelley, in I may ask?
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 28 May 2020, 16:28
The cpo is superior to Shelley in every way - performance, recording, playing - everything. Of course, we don't have Symphony No.2 from cpo yet, but that would be the only reason (for the time being) to hang onto the Shelley.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: hyperdanny on Friday 29 May 2020, 17:34
thank you..mouthwatering, indeed...
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 29 May 2020, 17:57
The cpo's an adrenalin-rush compared to previous releases.

It's now in stock and for sale at jpc:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112)

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w220/front/0/0761203511426.jpg)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 10 June 2020, 03:43
Wait, was it originally symphonies 1 & 3 or is this a repackaging? :)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 10 June 2020, 07:36
that is strange... wonder what happened......  I am headed back to Germany for an assignment  will see what I can find in Berlin.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 10 June 2020, 07:39
I don't understand your question, Eric. If you look back at my opening post you'll see that this release was always supposed to include Symphonies 1 and 3. I may have confused things by concentrating on Symphony 3, i.e. the main work on the CD, but Symphony No.1 was always part of the package, as were the additional orchestral items (which I failed to mention - apologies).
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 11 June 2020, 03:40
Got it., Thanks.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 June 2020, 09:12
Great. Sorry to have confused you, Eric.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 11 June 2020, 15:02
My fault entirely. Looking forward to hearing the new recording, and hoping that there are several volumes to come--- if possible.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 23 June 2020, 09:16
Audio excerpts from this magnificent release are now available here:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/carl-heinrich-reinecke-symphonien-vol-1/hnum/6100112)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 14 October 2020, 21:44
Review here:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Oct/Reinecke-orchestral-v1-5551142.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Oct/Reinecke-orchestral-v1-5551142.htm)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 14 October 2020, 22:40
It's a positive review, but to compare what Reinecke was writing in 1895 (his 3rd Symphony) with works by younger composers (Mahler's Resurrection Symphony, Strauss' Till Eulenspiegel, Elgar's From the Bavarian Highlands, Dvořák's Cello Concerto) is just plain silly. In 1895 Reinecke was 71; Mahler was 35, Strauss 31, Elgar 38 and Dvořák 54! If we extend the comparison, when Strauss was 71 in 1935, he too was an anachronism - as was Elgar at the same age in 1928. Mahler and Dvořák didn't even live to be 71! Poor old Reinecke: he just lived too long and kept composing, remaining true to his ideals!

Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 October 2020, 02:13
late Saint-Saëns is not a horrible comparison and contains some very good music (imho). (Eg the 2nd cello sonata, from age 69; the 2nd cello concerto, from age 67... age 71, the cantata Gloire de Corneille, I'm not familiar with yet.)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 October 2020, 04:32
The reviewer also gets Reinecke's birthyear flipped, I see.
Hrm. Ok, I should see who else was born in the 1820s-or-so, still composing in the 1890s (besides JBr!), ... (but for myself; too tangential, I see it can't be for this thread...)
(Well, one more- Gouvy's late works from the late 1880s when he was almost 70.)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: CelesteCadenza on Thursday 15 October 2020, 08:13
That MusicWeb review also indicates that an "Uppsala Rhapsody op.24 [10.45]" is contained on this CD - too much cutting and pasting and inadequate proofreading methinks.

Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 14 October 2020, 21:44
Review here:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Oct/Reinecke-orchestral-v1-5551142.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Oct/Reinecke-orchestral-v1-5551142.htm)
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 15 October 2020, 20:20
Didn't spot that! The piece is by Alfvén, of course! As you say, must have been some careless proofreading.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 07 April 2022, 13:23
If friends haven't yet heard the superb performance of No.3 on this CD, here it is in full:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-wmnIXpGvs

Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 07 April 2022, 23:00
I'm guessing that the mention of the Alfven has been removed from that review, though at least one obvious typo has not.
Title: Re: Reinecke Orchestral works vol.1
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 April 2022, 09:54
Any more comments on Symphony No.3?