I'd like to present another forgotten treasure here, the splendid C major symphony by Ferdinand Hiller – realized with Noteperformer! The dating of this work is not entirely certain: it was performed several times between 1877 and 1880 (according to dates and signatures from the musicians in the manuscript parts), but Goethe Universität gives circa 1830-31 for the actual composition year. Anyway, its premiere seems most certainly have been at the 54th Lower Rhenish Music Festival at Cologne in 1877.
The first movement alone is, in my mind, a genuine masterpiece. Note the initial 2 minutes spent exploring distant keys & the unusually syncopated treatment of the material, before settling for the first time in majestic C major... – the inner movements I'm less enthusiastic about, but the energetic Finale rounds the work up on a high note. Hiller's writing is so full of delightful details that by just typing up this one score I feel like having learnt a year's worth of lessons in orchestration.
It's long, though: manuscript full score's some 250 pages (!) I can promise you it was meticulous work. Unfortunately I had no means to study the undigitized manuscript parts, which would go a long way in proofing the score (Hiller writes messily it seems always when it's crucial of him not to be doing so). Hopefully I've been able to do Hiller even a little deserved justice with this – his voluminous legacy is, after all, still largely forgotten and unrecorded.
https://youtu.be/XY22op-F0bc (https://youtu.be/XY22op-F0bc)
As an interesting aside, writing on some of the handwritten parts indicate this Symphony was performed at a "music festival" in Düsseldorf in 1880. However the Wikipedia listing for Lower Rhenish Music Festival tells that the 1880 festival was held at Cologne. Either the wiki info is wrong, or some other festival than LRMF was held in Düsseldorf that year....
Thank you so very much for doing this great work, so that at last we can hear Hiller's marvellous symphony in its orchestral colour and texture. We are greatly indebted to you. I have already listened to the first movement and am greatly impressed. I shall write more once I have heard the entire piece.
I'd like to echo Gareth's words. Furthermore, if the date of composition is 1830-1, Hiller wrote the symphony at the age of only 19-20!
Oh, absolutely. What a wonderful and welcome surprise. Thank you so much.
Thank you everyone! This rendition was created a few pages at a time, very slowly over the course of about 4 months.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 20 May 2020, 22:42
I'd like to echo Gareth's words. Furthermore, if the date of composition is 1830-1, Hiller wrote the symphony at the age of only 19-20!
I'm wondering where the information is from, too... there's just something here that doesn't match with Hiller's other early 1830s orchestral works. The complexity of the orchestral writing might be one thing, and the look of the handwriting and ordering of instruments in the manuscript has more in common with his 1840s (or later) orch. scores, from what I can tell. I have no definitive proof either way, so this is just speculation.
have his two early sketchbooks been consulted? (one of them is @ IMSLP, one of them is still only @ GUF.)
There's this comment on the IMSLP page, so, no definite answers there...
QuoteHiller's (31-page but 150-plus Mb...) first datebook (1825-1831) may be able to offer more accurate dating. Can't seem to find it in there, however or in the 1832-1836 one, suggesting perhaps a date between the November 1831 end of the first book and May 1832 beginning of the 2nd, perhaps... though neither book is comprehensive. The February 5 1831 completion of the symphony in E minor (#2?) is lost in the silence of the first datebook between January and April 1831, for example... so...)
I think I wrote that, actually... meep.
My sense - purely subjective, I know - is that this is certainly earlier than the Symphony in E minor Op.67, 'Es muss doch Frühling werden' of 1848, of which we can only hear the first movement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7VMLY6xY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7VMLY6xY0)
A possible stylistic comparison would be with, say, Hiller's contemporary Mendelssohn's Symphony No.1, evidently completed in 1824 and given its first performance in Leipzig in 1827. Apart from the jagged opening of Hiller's Symphony which is all his own, I'd say this symphony could easily come from roughly the same period. Mendelssohn and Hiller, had been boyhood friends, of course.
The questionable date of 1830 comes from the source of the PDF (Symphonie (in C-Dur) / von Ferdinand Hiller (http://publikationen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/frontdoor/index/index/docId/22683) but I don't know their source for this assertion. The dates and signatures on the various orchestra parts listed on the symphony's page at IMSLP I took from the first volume (starting at page 417/418) of the inventory of Hiller's scores at Goethe University (http://publikationen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/frontdoor/index/index/docId/24180). I could not find a date of 1830 within that section. One wonders if Hiller's Erinnerungsblätter (https://imslp.org/wiki/Erinnerungsbl%C3%A4tter_(Hiller%2C_Ferdinand)) makes any mention of the symphony.
I've done a search under 'Symphonie' in Hiller's Erinnerungsblätter ('Reminiscences'), but there's no mention of his own C major Symphony there at all.
Great work, Tomas! I'm going to enjoy this.
From what I've been distilling from IMSLP the chronology of Hiller's symphonies, insofar known, looks like this:
- Symphony in E minor (1829)
- Symphony in C major (this one; 1830)*
- Symphony in E minor (1831)*
- Symphony in A minor (1831)
- Symphony in F minor (1832)
- Symphony in E minor, Es muss doch Frühling werden (1849)*
- Symphony in G, "Im freien" (1852)
- Symphony in C major (1877)
A few notes: The A minor and E minor of 1831 may be one and he same because of a printing error. And the notes in the opus list at IMSLP suggests the existence of four (!) more symphonies.
Thanks Ilja. The presence of two C major symphonies in your list is really suspect. It was *this* symphony in question that was premiered in 1877 in Cologne, after all.
All this confusion proves two points – one, a thorough study into Hiller's works, chronology, primary sources and everything is badly needed; and two, we really should figure out how to travel back in time to force Hiller to write some dates in his manuscripts! Sheesh!
IMSLP's listing in a bit more detail:
- Symphony No.1 in E minor (1829 September 23, according to Hiller's datebook)
- Symphony in C major (from ca.1830) (poss. symphony no.1?)
- Symphony in E minor (concluded February 5 1831) -both scanned in at the Goethe University of Frankfurt (in
autograph Mus Ms 87 and abschrift Mus Ms 88. Different incipit from 1829 symphony. 4 movements ending in a
Chant des Pirates.)
- Symphony No.2 in A minor (performed 1831 December at the Paris Conservatoire, with the premiere of the Opus
5 piano concerto -- ? could this be the E minor, mis-described in a source?)
- Symphony No.3? (possibly Symphony in F minor, ca.1832 with new finale 1833)
- Symphony No.4? 'Im Freien' in G major (British premiere 1852. Could be opus 50 or 51?)
- Symphony No.5? in C (performed at the Gewandhaus in 1877 according to Geschichte der Gewandhausconcerte
zu Leipzig vom 25. November 1781 bis 25. November 1881)
- 4 other symphonies (according to recent research?)
- Symphony in E minor Op.67 (No.4?) - (N.B. - 'Es muss doch Frühling werden' 1848, ed. Alan Howe)
Questionable entries in red.
Thanks, Alan. That's one from the Cipriani Potter Book of Messed-up Chronologies.
Congratulations on finishing it tpaloj ! The process can get a bit mind numbing can't it. However the pleasure of rediscovering the composer's thought processes bar by bar is reward enough I think.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 21 May 2020, 10:56
I think I wrote that, actually... meep.
;D
Well you couldn't be more right Reverie. I've learnt from experience that having multiple projects helps: changing between different scores keeps things interesting and relieves monotony. Right now I'm looking at the Overture to Draeseke's "
Fischer and Kalif", the first part of Raff's
Dornröschen and Bernhard Scholz's neglected D major Piano Concerto from 1897, all great works – especially the Raff! – that have been a joy to type.
Thank you for checking the
Erinnerungsblätter Alan! Shame we don't have any concrete answers. One further additional point that might collaborate a later date for the C major symphony than 1830-1: the fact that the instrument names and transpositions in the score are not in French but rather German/Italian. In the Symphony in E (1831), Hiller writes his instruments/transpositions in French (hautbois [oboe] ut [c] etc etc.) which makes sense since he was still living in Paris. He moved to Frankfurt in 1836 and from that point on it makes sense he would incorporate German habits into his handwriting and scores.
Your work is greatly appreciated and I'm particularly looking forward to hearing some more of Raff's Dornröschen, of course.
Indeed. And your observations about the use of one language rather than another (in the scores) is also very interesting.
Beautiful. Many thanks for sharing it here.
This is certainly 'one of those symphonies', isn't it? By which I mean one of a select group that are just crying out to be performed and recorded. It has intensely memorable themes in all four movements and writing that is often exciting in the extreme. The finale makes a rousing conclusion - and can I hear pre-echoes of Brahms' Haydn Variations? Compare from 9:28 (Variation 6) of the Brahms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuqxEMRapg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuqxEMRapg).
All we need is more background information on its date of composition. If early (1830-1), it would be remarkable. If later, it would still be an outstanding piece of writing.
I get now anyway that there aren't -two- Hiller C major symphonies (1830s and 1870s) as I thought ; the clarinet parts, I see from IMSLP, to the "1830s" C major symphony contain markings like "1878.2...." etc "Bremen" (confirmed by an announcement I found, while looking for some info about premiere dates of Hiller's op.172- still no luck there,- of a performance of a Hiller C major symphony in Bremen in an 1878 Neue Zeitschrift, if one needs such confirmation :) ) - indeed all the marked-up performance parts at GUF of Hiller's C major symphony are from 1877-1880...
Indeed Eric, the dating of Hiller's symphonies is difficult. Such a small act of dating his manuscripts would have cleared the entire matter up so easily...!! At the moment, my thinking is along these lines:
- Symphony [No.1] in E minor (1829-1831)*
- Symphony [No.2] "Symphonie de Victoire" (1830)** LOST
- Symphony [No.3] in F minor (1832-1833)
- Symphony [No.4] in E minor Op. 67 "Es muss doch Frühling werden" (1847)
- Symphony [No.5] in G major "In Freien" (ca.1852?) LOST
- Symphony [No.6] in C major (ca.1877?)***
NOTES:
* The case of the early Symphonies in E is complex. There have ever existed either one or two with conflicting evidence against each case:
1) The 'Allegro' incipit for a "Symphonie für grosses Orchester [in E]" in his 1829 composition diary doesn't match the Symphony in E minor [Mus HS 87]. But Hiller states that he rewrote the Allegro of the Symphony in E minor in 1831 ("Allegro dazu umgearbeitet, --"), so the 1829 incipit might have been made obsolete.
2) The book "Proportio artificiosa raro usitata --" states that the Symphony in E minor [Mus HS 87] was premiered on December 4, 1831. The Revue Musicales 1831 articles certainly prove that a "Symphonie à grand orchestre" composed by Hiller was performed, but the concert review is too vague to definitely say it was the E minor one.
3) Berlioz writes, in 1835, definitely referring to the Symphony in E minor [Mus HS 87], that it was one of Hiller's earliest compositions. A footnote in the book "Berlioz on Music: Selected Criticism 1824-1837" states that this Symphony Berlioz is referring to was composed in 1829 and first performed on March 23, 1833, conflicting with the above source. The March 23, 1833 concert does indeed feature a "Nouvelle symphonie à grand orchestre, composée par F. Hiller". The wording 'nouvelle' (new) implies it is not the same work that was performed in December 4, 1831.
4) The conclusions I can draw are in favor of claiming that the 1829 "Symphonie für grosses Orchester [in E]", which originally had a different Allegro movement, was revised and is the same work as the Symphony in E minor [Mus HS 87]. Either the "Symphonie de Victoire" (now lost) or the F minor Symphony (without a revised Finale) was the 'new symphony' premiered in the March 23, 1833 concert. I don't know where the claim that the Symphony performed in this concert has the key of A originates from. I could not collaborate any such notion in the Revue Musicales 1833 articles regarding this concert.
** The entry in Hiller's 1830 composition diary for this Symphony does not name a key, but incipits suggest either C minor or E-flat major. The single diary entry is detailed, including incipits from all four movements. The state of the manuscript is uncertain; presumed lost.
*** In view of all the evidence, and absence of any mentions of this work in Hiller's early correspondence and diaries, I suggest a later date than the previously assumed 1830-1. In any case, the sources at my disposal are few and better study on the subject would be needed to make an absolute claim to this effect.
A fascinating, and convincing, exercise in musicological detective work. Thanks. The C major symphony would certainly be very advanced for the 1830s, less so for 40 years later. Is there no biography or autobiography on Hiller which might shed some light on all this?
So: which symphonies do we actually have in full score? Can we leave out the 'don't knows' and list the ones we actually have for sure (regardless of date)?
I don't know any complete English biography of Hiller to exist (please correct me if someone knows of one!). The strangely titled Proportio artificiosa raro usitata appears to be the most complete account written on the composer but, written in German, its contents are largely out of my reach. Hiller's two composition diaries are also important sources to consult. They contain many entries + incipits related to his early symphonies.
https://www.amazon.com/Proportio-artificiosa-raro-usitata-Ferdinand/dp/3487157128 (https://www.amazon.com/Proportio-artificiosa-raro-usitata-Ferdinand/dp/3487157128)
Scores that exist:
- Symphony in E minor (which I've denoted as Mus HS 87 above) in four movements, ending in Chants des Pirates. Both Hiller's autograph and a copyist's full score survive. It was not published, though.
- Symphony in F (1832 with revised Finale in 1833). Hiller's autograph. By the way, I was smiling all the way skimming through the Finale movement of this one! Might be worth looking into at some point. Eric, you made a few parts to this, I'm wondering how far did you get...?
- Symphony in C. Hiller's autograph.
- Symphony in E minor Op. 67 "Es muss doch Frühling werden", full score was published around 1850-60s I think.
All above scores can be found on IMSLP. The "Symphonische Phantasie Op.127" could be considered very close to the genre of Symphony, as well. The other symphonies are only known to exist by other evidence, no scores have surfaced. The "Symphonie de Victoire" has a sizeable, detailed entry in Hiller's early composition diary. Symphony in G major "In Freien" was apparently mentioned performed in a London concert in 1852.
Right, thanks. So we actually possess four complete symphonies. Is it probable, then, that the Symphony in E minor Op.67 ('Es muss doch Frühling werden') is the last of them?
To my ears Op.67...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7VMLY6xY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7VMLY6xY0)
...sounds later than the C major (which seems to be very Beethovenian in the manner of Mendelssohn's C minor Symphony):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY22op-F0bc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY22op-F0bc&feature=youtu.be)
We only have one source for the symphony "Im Freien", and no reason to suppose it wasn't a typo for something else, so I'd probably put a question mark next to it. (Misreadings of E minor works as G major works (and similar mistransposition) were astonishingly - given the education level of the writers - common in journals, worklists, HMB, etc. etc. etc. of the time, and it wouldn't surprise me to see one motto confused with another, either.)
The Proportio artificiosa raro usitata book by Michael Gehlmann apparently contains the first comprehensive list of Hiller's works. The table of contents at least can be downloaded using this link (https://aleph.unibas.ch/F/D87FA1PQLM2QI3ARXRT8CXK92K889MY7BSPIX7KSIID9RMJQSX-00977?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=030538318) and clicking on "Inhaltsverzeichnis". If nobody beats me to it, I could get that book the next time I go to the library.
It's also worth mentioning that the Hiller manuscripts in the Goethe-Universität Frankfurt Library have been catalogued in extensive detail by Christine Ihl. Her catalogue (in two volumes) can be downloaded as PDF files on the library's website. She has even gone to the trouble of notating incipits for a large amount of works, and transcribing lyrics of any manuscripts containing them. Thanks to her catalogue, I was intrigued to find out Hiller had composed a setting on "Der gefesselte Prometheus", with a manuscript score running up to some 366 pages, not to mention a few other interesting entries including a Clarinet concerto and the ever-elusive Violin Concerto dedicated to Joseph Joachim...
The answer seems to be the Werkverzeichnis contained in Gehlmann's book, which looks to be extremely comprehensive. The book itself is also hugely expensive, so I wonder if we can prevail on Wheesht's kind offer and ask if he can borrow the book from his library?
Google Books also has an online preview of Gehlmann's book, but as usual for them most pages cannot be previewed.
One further small point on the dating of the C major symphony... while the other early Hiller symphonies appear to be scored for natural horns, the C major Symphony certainly uses valved horns: a couple of very rapid crook changes appear in the 2nd movement, which would be impossible to execute on natural horns. Valved horns were only introduced in Paris relatively late by around 1826-1828 (the first Paris Conservatoire class on the use of valved horn was held in 1833). The use of valved horns was shunned in Paris well into early 1840s. It would appear counter-intuitive for Hiller to use valved horns in a 1830-31 work while the Symphony in F (1832-33) returns back to the use of natural horns.
The book is on order from my library, I should get it by Monday or even before.
Terrific. Thanks Thomas.
Quote from: Wheesht on Thursday 25 June 2020, 06:50
The book is on order from my library, I should get it by Monday or even before.
Thanks, that's great!
Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 24 June 2020, 17:52
We only have one source for the symphony "Im Freien", and no reason to suppose it wasn't a typo for something else, so I'd probably put a question mark next to it. (Misreadings of E minor works as G major works (and similar mistransposition) were astonishingly - given the education level of the writers - common in journals, worklists, HMB, etc. etc. etc. of the time, and it wouldn't surprise me to see one motto confused with another, either.)
All valid points. I haven't located the actual article or source that the info about this mysterious 1852 "Im Freien" Symphony is based on.
Revues Musicales and
AMZ databases are easily found online for study, but I don't know much about British music journals of that time period.
I thought I read it (the source of the 1852 claim) myself at one point, but it wasn't a primary source at all.
Proportio artificiosa (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Proportio_artificiosa_raro_usitata_Ferdi/o2dyDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Hiller+Ferdinand+%22Im+Freien%22&pg=PA397&printsec=frontcover) says a lot about it... including mentioning that it was in fact performed at least three times, 1852, 1854 and 1855.
I haven't seen a primary source, but it is repeated in Grove and a number of other works of music reference.
"It's also worth mentioning that the Hiller manuscripts in the Goethe-Universität Frankfurt Library have been catalogued in extensive detail by Christine Ihl."
How funny, I know Christne Ihl very well, she is a friend of mine... Now as I read this I remembere that years ago she was telling me about her work on Hiller.. :)
Gerd