If you have been considering catching up on your Tyrolean composers, the Tiroler Landesmuseum in Innsbruck is currently offering all its CDs at half price...
http://www.tiroler-landesmuseum.at/shop.php/de/cds/index_.html (http://www.tiroler-landesmuseum.at/shop.php/de/cds/index_.html)
Alan, what is your opinion of Pembaur's Cello Concerto and Symphony In Tirol? And his four-handed piano music? Are Gänsbacher's and Nagiller's Symphonies worth buying? And what about Netzer's Symphonies 2 and 3? Do you have any (other) recommendations?
Pembaur's Cello Concerto is a lovely late-Romantic piece; the Symphony In Tirol adds Tyrolean themes to the mix to produce a very unusual piece indeed. I don't think all that much of Gänsbacher (he's more of historical importance, although enjoyable), but the Nagiller Symphony is a favourite of mine, with a first movement that will stick in your memory - well worth buying. I enjoy all of Netzer's symphonies, although I don't think any of them is of the stature of Rufinatscha; I'm equally certain that they are worth purchasing, especially at half price.
Thank you for your useful comments, Alan. Three CDs from Austria are coming my way.
Do post your reactions when you receive them, Peter.
Thanks for the info about the Tiroler's sale.
I am happy to see they finally have a secure (apparently) way to buy via credit card. I have purchased from them in the past two year-end sales - when I had to send my credit card info to them via fax. Unfortunately, each time my credit card was immediately thereafter hit with fraudulent charges. Coincidence? I don't think so. I vowed not to buy anything else - but now have ordered the Pembaur and Nagiller discs via their secure link. ???
I too tried to purchase the Pembauer disc from them - unsuccessfully. And recently I was hit with fraudulent charges as well. Coincidence? I don't think so! Fortunately they were both small charges (because my card was too close to the limit. Another large charge was declined).
After two unsuccessful paying attempts with my creditcard (two times refused) I've written them an email. I thought I was a good customer, but this is not the first time that I've experienced problems with paying my ordered CDs.
Oh dear. Yes, do send them an e-mail - and let me know if there's a problem: I should be able to put you in contact with the right person.
I've never had any problems with paying by credit card at all...
Quote from: Peter1953 on Monday 06 December 2010, 07:15
After two unsuccessful paying attempts with my creditcard (two times refused) I've written them an email.
Yes, after I went through all the "checkout" pages and eventually authorized the purchase on the credit card-processing site, I received a message that there was an "error" in the processing. So I started to enter the info over again. Before I could finish this, however, an email arrived which confirmed that the order had been received. Quirky.
(Now,
pace JimL, I will keep an eye out for anything untoward. :o)
I too had a problem the last time I ordered a cd (Netzer), getting my credit card authorised. Previously, I had ordered 3 or 4 cds and each time had no problem getting the credit card authorised. This time it was refused three times, yet I too got an email saying my order was accepted. Out of interest, I phoned Barclaycard and was told the transaction had been logged 3 times!!! I wrote to Tiroler Landesmuseum ( I speak German) and received a very nice email back saying that there was only one order and I would be charged just once, which was what eventually happened, with Barclaycard waiving the other two entries. As other members have remarked - very quirky! I hope the problem is rectified the next time I order!
Cheers
Dennis
I'm not sure what happened, having forgotten most of the elementary German I learned my freshman year at UCLA. All I know is that apparently my order didn't go through, but some months later my CapitalOne card information ended up in someone else's hands (probably with a fake card) and unauthorized charges were made.
At the risk of jumping on the band wagon here, I too have had some problems with purchasing through the Tirolischer Landmuseum website. I had the same issues as previous posters with the page apparently "not accepting" my credit card payment, then after several attempts, getting an acknowledgement that it had in fact been processed. The discs (their complete Rufinatscha collection!!) arrived safely in July and were every bit as good as I had hoped. Then a few weeks ago I received a letter and an invoice (all 'auf Deutsch, naturlich') saying that it appeared the account may not have been settled. I checked my credit card statements and indeed it had, so I disregarded the letter. This all points to a somewhat unreliable site at the moment, which is a shame as it is a treasure trove of unsung composers!
I had been thinking if availing myself of he 50% discount to acquire the Rufinatscha CD's . After reading this thread, however, I think I will pass. I can wait until the Chandos Rufinatscha series comes out and get it from more reliable sources.
A shame...
Frau Eva Bertsch, secretary, responded immediately on my email and attached an invoice which I could easily pay by telebanking. Now I am awaiting 4 CDs from Austria.
Oldman, send her an email, place your order, and ask for an invoice. You will never regret buying the Rufinatscha CDs.
With all due respect I'll pass on this. I can wait for the chandos rufinatscha
You'll have to wait a fair time. There probably won't be any further releases until well into 2012 and 2013.
Well, it now has been two weeks since I placed my order with the Tiroler folks, and the CDs have yet to arrive. Considering the past service (or, really, lack thereof) which I've received from these people, and the fact that they apparently have a new payment scheme, I am wondering if the order was processed at all. Yes, the charge has appeared on my card statement - but it should not take so long for mail to reach the US from Europe. We'll see.... :-\
I've spent the last two days listening to undiscovered Tyrolian music. And I've enjoyed it very much.
The 4 symphonies from Josef Netzer (1808-1864) are all easy listening. Nothing exiting, hardly any progress, no sparkling passages, no catching thematic material, but just pleasant. Anyone who likes symphonic music of the 2nd quarter of the 19th century will like Netzer's symphonies. I've listened to these symphonies twice, and I have a slight preference for the 4th. Are they worth buying? I think so, and certainly for half price. To my ears it's relaxing classical background music. They are "documented" in the CDs Klingende Kostbarkeiten aus Tirol 40 (2&3) and 45 (1&4).
Much more interesting is the purely Romantic symphony In Tirol in F major, op. 39, from Josef Pembaur (The Elder, 1848-1923). It's a description of the Tyrolian life translated in four lovely movements. I hope to hear this symphony also when I'm visiting Tyrol, and can enjoy the folk music, like Pembaur presents in the 3rd movement Spiel und Tanz im Dorfe (Play and Dance in the Village). His Frühlingsouvertüre (Spring Overture), written as a young man to present himself as a composer of symphonic music, is also very worth while listening. This CD, Klingende Kostbarkeiten aus Tirol 54 features another work, here for the first time performed. Nothing less than a most wonderful Cello Concerto (no key is given). To my ears a real find! In fact I'm amazed that this gem (I even dare to call it a masterpiece) has been so neglected. This op. 86, composed around the year 1910, is in a late Romantic style and has kept me fully concentrated listening. BTW, congratulations for the young cellist Tim Ströble, especially in his subtle playing of the moving Romanze. The concerto is a winner and deserves to be put on a list of great Romantic Cello Concertos.
The CD Klingende Kostbarekeiten aus Tirol 51 couples two other symphonies. The 2nd is Matthäus Nagiller's Symphony 1 in C minor, composed in 1845 when he was staying in Paris. A picture of a part of the score shows the French names of the musical instruments in his beautiful handwriting. The first movement, an allegro, is IMO the best part of his symphony. I hope to hearing more from Nagiller (1815-1874).
And now the Pièce the Résistance. That is the only symphony by Johann Baptist Gänsbacher (1778-1844). In one word, no, two words: utterly sparkling. At this moment I'm listening to it for the 6th time in two days. This music makes me feel good and happy. All four movements are a constant joy. There is an important role for the wind instruments, especially in the outer movements. It reminds me of Joseph Haydn's Trumpet Concerto, the opening movement after the slow introduction in particular. In fact, I think the whole symphony seems like a sort of combination of Haydn's Trumpet Concerto and both symphonies from Von Weber. I just love it. Very warmly recommended!
In summary, very lovely music, but... not at the same level as Johann Rufinatscha. He is definitely the pearl of Tyrol.
I am so enthusiastic about Pembaur, so I thought I order his four-handed piano music as well. But... what happened to the Museum's on line shop? It looks like it is not accessible.
febnyc, once your CDs arrive, you will find out that it has been worth waiting for.
Quote from: Peter1953 on Saturday 18 December 2010, 22:29Much more interesting is the purely Romantic symphony In Tirol in F major, op. 39, from Josef Pembaur (The Elder, 1848-1923). It's a description of the Tyrolian life translated in four lovely movements. I hope to hear this symphony also when I'm visiting Tyrol, and can enjoy the folk music, like Pembaur presents in the 3rd movement Spiel und Tanz im Dorfe (Play and Dance in the Village). His Frühlingsouvertüre (Spring Overture), written as a young man to present himself as a composer of symphonic music, is also very worth while listening. This CD, Klingende Kostbarkeiten aus Tirol 54 features another work, here for the first time performed. Nothing less than a most wonderful Cello Concerto (no key is given). To my ears a real find! In fact I'm amazed that this gem (I even dare to call it a masterpiece) has been so neglected. This op. 86, composed around the year 1910, is in a late Romantic style and has kept me fully concentrated listening. BTW, congratulations for the young cellist Tim Ströble, especially in his subtle playing of the moving Romanze. The concerto is a winner and deserves to be put on a list of great Romantic Cello Concertos.
You can figure out the keys of the overture and concerto from the Symphony, whose key is given. The
Frühlingsouverture, as I recall, is in A. The Cello Concerto is in B minor.
Quote from: Peter1953 on Saturday 18 December 2010, 22:29
febnyc, once your CDs arrive, you will find out that it has been worth waiting for.
Thank you, Peter - I have loads of CDs from Tiroler and, indeed, enjoy all of them. This time I ordered only the Pembaur and the Nagiller discs. If, and when, they arrive I have no doubt they'll be entertaining.
Fortunately the on-line music shop is functioning again.
The CD Classic Dreams aus Tirol features symphonic works by Rufinatscha, Netzer and Pembaur. That's the only given information. Does anybody know more details?
It contains excerpts from CDs that are already available:
1. Rufinatscha Sym 2: Aadgio con espressione
2. Pembaur Cello Concerto: Romanze
3. Rufinatscha Piano Quartet: Adagio molto
4. Netzer Sym 4: Andante
5. Pembaur Symphony In Tirol: Idylle
6. Rufinatscha Sym 5: Adagio
7. Netzer Sym 3: Adagio
So, a nice CD - but containing nothing new!
Thank you very much for your information, Alan.
Well, the CDs I ordered on December 4th never have arrived here in the States. A couple of emails to Eva Bertsch result only in her telling me that they were sent on December 10th. No offer to investigate or, heavens!, to send replacements. My past credit-card-fraud experiences with this outfit had me skeptical - now I certainly am disappointed. They have 36 bucks of my hard-earned money and I have no Pembaur or Nagiller CDs. :'(
Maybe there is hope that your ordered CD's are still on its way to you, febnyc. The delivery can take some more time than usual because of the extra Christmas mail handling, and perhaps the Tyrolean package is also opened by the customs.
My company does some business with US customers and sending an ordinary airmail (!) letter sometimes takes more than 3 weeks from the Netherlands to the US customer. Sending a letter to Japan lasts only 3 days before delivery.
One of these days I'm expecting your enthusiastic post telling us about Gänsbacher's symphony with its catching tunes. ;)
Peter1953: Thank you for your kind note and eternal optimism. I buy lots of CDs from European sources and never have I had to wait this long to receive. However, I will allow for the weather in Europe and the holidays, and therefore hope to be posting my enthusiastic comments forthwith!
Thanks for the guidance, I got an invoice easily, then was surprised that my order went through smoothly via debit card (I never have enough money in it to worry too much about fraudulent charges :)), and received within about 2 weeks, doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I got the new CD of Emil Berlanda and the Pembaur Cello Cto, et al, have had several of Rufinatscha from them for several yrs, and can't wait to hear more if CPO does do his stuff. The recording of Rufinatscha's wonderful piano concerto was done with a fortepiano, so I hope someone does it with a modern piano, too, no one quibbles about Beethoven and Schumann being done on today's magnificent pianos, so I wonder why they felt the need for a fortepiano, very, very good anyway. I can barely contain my enthusiasm for Berlanda, and I hope the rest of you will get his CD, hidden genius and almost never got to hear his own wonderful stuff played. Anyway, am happy, and you all helped me get that way!
It was actually done with a "Hammerfluegel" from 1838. Hardly an 18th-Century fortepiano! More like one of Beethoven's Broadwoods, although it looks to be about the size of a baby grand, from the photos.
I wonder if anyone has an update on the availability of the Pembaur. My German isn´t up to much!
As far as I can see (https://shop.tiroler-landesmuseen.at/produkt/klingende-kostbarkeiten-aus-tirol-54/?v=11aedd0e4327), it's in stock at the Landesmuseum. If you want to sample the music, you may listen to it on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVSDKygDqsI), too.
I have just clicked on the link now and it says "nicht vorrätig" = not in stock, which is better than deleted or otherwise no longer available of course.
I rather fear that it amounts to the same thing, though.
There are a number of attractive CDs still in stock at the Landesmuseum, but i have read this thread about credit card issues and would rather like an update on the situation before launching into the unknown
I haven't ordered from them in quite a while, but I've never had any problems paying by credit card – and those card issues mentioned here were from more than ten years ago...
When I was briefly in Innsbruck a few years ago I called in at the museum and bought a couple of their CDs. They were the most charming, helpful people.
The logical thing is for me to contact a suitable person by email at the Museum, as I would prefer to pay by bank transfer. But I have no German. Any ideas as to whom I should email will be greatly appreciated.
You may want to contact Dr. Franz Gratl, the head of the music collection at the Ferdinandeum, his email (which can also be found on their website if you scroll down far enough) is:
f.gratl@tiroler-landesmuseen.at
That´s very helpful and I have just emailed him
Unfortunately, that email has come back with an error attachment. Could I trouble you to re-send it,please, as there must be a symbol or letter that I need to alter?
That may have been a temporary error. If you go the Ferdinandeum website (https://www.ferdinandeum.at/info/sammeln-forschen/die-sieben-sammlungen/musiksammlungen) and scroll down to the bottom, you'll find Dr. Gratl's email and can click on it. Hope this works.
Clicking on the website seems to have worked! Fingers crossed,and thanks again!
I ordered 5 CDs without a debit card problem, including the Netzer First and Fourth and the Rufinatscha Second. Four arrived safely, but the fifth (which happened to be the Netzer) was replaced by a 3.CD set of Schubert´s last Piano Sonatas.
Mark is right. They could not have been more helpful and delightful.
One of the music curators has rung me twice. He has been to the warehouse and found treasure trove, not just the missing Netzer, but Rufinatscha´s First and Fifth (now recognised as being his Fourth), Netzer´s Second and Third,and the Gansbacher symphony dating from 1807. He is also copying me the one remaining office CD of the Pembaur. In total, including the missing Netzer, he is sending seven more CDs to me,and refusing to charge for more than two.
I told him that I would post a tribute to his kindness on here.
That's wonderful. Great advocacy for some fab unsung music. Rufinatscha 1/5 is the stand-out CD.
I will echo Terry's compliments about Tiroler Landesmuseum. I have obtained the CDs he mentioned in the past (usually during their Xmas /New Year sales) as well as their CDs of 'Romantic' Overtures by Tirolean composers, plus Pembaur's two CDs. All of them have provided enjoyable or sometimes superb listening (particularly Netzer's symphonies IIRC). I had a sticky start some years ago when first using the museum's web-site (kindly sorted by Alan's knowledge of German) after which I had no problems that a quick e-mail (or telephone) exchange didn't sort out and only courtesy and efficiency from them in my enquiries.
Sadly recently I have found no new albums to further whet my appetite and have now I think collected all their available romantic orchestral works. However, it has introduced me to some very worthwhile romantic composers I'd never previously heard of (Rufinatscha being the first after a thread about him here at UC).
Happy listening Terry!
Richard
Thanks for your good wishes,Richard. The package of seven CDs is being prepared for me ,and so I was intrigued by your mention of two Pembaur CDs. I was only aware of the not in stock Symphony dating from 1884,which is coupled with the Cello Concerto. What does the other Pembaur CD contain, and do you have a CD number that I can give to the music curator, should it turn out that this other CD may also yet be found in the recesses of their warehouse?
(The Rufinatscha Piano Concerto is ,sadly, not even available to copy)
Terry,
The other Pembaur CD is his 'Fest-messe' in F maj 1976 (ca. 40' duration), the CD itself is annotated as '44', I assume meaning number 44 in the Musikmuseum's CD listings.
I've just had a look at the 'Musikmuseum' CDs in the web 'shop and I see the Pembaur Mass is not longer listed - perhaps they have run out and do not intend to make any more(?) but may be worth asking in case they still have one available.
Best wishes
Richard
That´s a very good suggestion, Richard. Thanks!
Pembaur Sr (1848-1923) or Pembaur Jr (1878-1950)? (Either way, since both died before 1976, I'm guessing that's a recording date!!)
(IMSLP has 5 works, 4 of them masses, at present, by the elder composer; one - a violin sonata - by his son.)
Senior, Eric.
Just to confirm Mark's note - the 'Muiskmuseum' CD I have of the Pembaur 'Festmesse' gives his dates as 1848 - 1923 and suggests the work was written in 1876 at Innsbruck.
Cheers
Richard
Seven Cds duly arrived today, together with a kind note from Mr Holzmann at the museum. He is keen to have feedback on the music distributed by the Landesmuseen and I will be sending him my comments, once I have played through them all. If anyone else wishes to provide him with feedback, he can be contacted at a.holzmann@tiroler-landesmuseen.at
A particularly welcome surprise was that he had found an original ,unplayed, CD of the Pembaur Symphony (rather than copying the office copy) and enclosed that gratis !
I have suggested to him that he might like to think about joining the Forum.
May I respectfully suggest that, if you intend to post your comments here (which would be great), you don't post feedback on multiple CDs in this thread, but use the search facility to locate the original threads on each CD?
I would be particularly interested in your comments on Rufinatscha's 1st...
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5385.30.html
...and 5th (please start a new thread).
Thanks!
Thanks for this,Alan. It will take me a few days before I can do this, but it is much better to do that on the particular CD thread. There may be a number that I have received that haven´t a thread at all, and, if they are worth commenting on, I will start them up. This thread, concerning the Landesmuseen and their assistance, is a wee bit of a hybrid, in my opinion
What has become obvious is that it is worth asking the Landesmuseen about CDs that seem to be deleted completely, or not currently in stock. Mr Holzmann has,for example, promised to notify me if the Rufinatscha Piano Concerto (no 62 in the Landesmuseen catalogue) reappears. Apparently, some devotees of the Landesmuseen occasionally gift their CDs back, so that others can enjoy them.
Thanks, Terry.