Recently revisiting the music of Stanford in conjunction with the biographies by Jeremy Dibble (OUP) and Paul Rodmell (Ashgate) I have been impressed once again by the strength and personality of the music by this supposed Brahms epigone. Thinking back to the bad old days when all that was available were the EMI LPs of the Irish Symphony and the Songs of the Sea/ Songs of the Fleet, it is remarkable just how blessed we have been in recent years with excellent recordings as the following list indicates (although unfortunately a few of these are now deleted):
7 Symphonies (Chandos under Vernon Handley and Naxos under David Lloyd-Jones - my vote goes for the latter)
6 Irish Rhapsodies (Chandos and the also the 4th on Lyrita)
3 Piano Concertos (1st on Hyperion, 2nd on both Chandos and Lyrita, 3rd on Lyrita)
Violin Concerto No.1 and Suite for Violin and Orchestra (Hyperion)
Cello Concerto (Lyrita)
Clarinet Concerto (Chandos, Naxos)
Concert Variations Down Among the Dead Men for Piano and Orchestra (Chandos)
Concert Piece for Organ and Orchestra (Chandos)
Prelude to Oedipus Rex (Chandos)
Requiem (Marco Polo, reissued on Naxos)
Stabat mater (Chandos)
The Revenge, Songs and the Sea, Songs of the Fleet (Chandos)
Piano Quintet, String Quintet No.1, String Quartets Nos. 1 & 2, Violin Sonatas (Hyperion)
Piano Quartet No.1, Piano Trio No.1 (ASV)
Cello Sonatas (Meridian)
Clarinet Sonata, Piano Trio No.3 (Naxos)
Piano music (Preludes 1st set on Priory, 2nd set on Olympia)
Organ Sonatas (Priory, reissued on Regis)
Church Services (Hyperion and Priory)
Songs (two volumes on Hyperion)
The glaring omission is the operas - especially Much Ado About Nothing (1901) and The Travelling Companion (1916). There are still a number of choral works which deserve professional recording - especially Elegiac Ode (1884), The Voyage of Maeldune (1889), the Te Deum (1898) and Merlin and the Gleam (1919). It would also be wonderful to hear the later string quartets and the best of his best Partsongs - of course, any future premiere recordings would be more than welcome!
I would encourage anybody new to Stanford to perhaps try the Irish Rhapsodies on Chandos (reissued together on a two-disc set coupled with Piano Concerto No.2), the inexpensive Naxos symphony cycle and either the Requiem or the Stabat mater. If your taste is for chamber music, I'm sure you will be hugely impressed with the Hyperion disc coupling the Piano Quintet and String Quintet No.1.
How would you compare CVS with Parry?
I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't compare Haydn with Mozart
Oh, indulge me, please! I was trying to get a handle on a fellow-enthusiast's preferences, and the reasons for them. For what it's worth, I can't separate them at their best, but others may disagree...
Funny. even I can't separate Mozart and Haydn at times. thats t reason I posted the comment. But if u want me 2 dig a little deeper. Id say I prefer parry to Stanford, solely on the base of his symphonies. Parrys no. 5 (I feel) is more engaging than any of Stanfords except may be the 3rd.
As far as concertos go, Stanford takes the trophy for his Super-excellent Piano concerto no 2 and Violin concerto in D major.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 06 January 2011, 19:38
How would you compare CVS with Parry?
I don't think I can really compare them any more than FBerwald can - both are (to my mind at least) excellent composers who wrote significant quantities of music which attains a very high level. If pushed to the vaguest of generalisations, I would say that Parry's inspiration was more fitful than Stanford's but ran emotionally deeper (in works such as the 5th Symphony,
The Soul's Ransom, the
Ode on the Nativity and
Songs of Farewell), whereas Stanford, with his far greater fluency and better technique, produced more immediately appealing music at a lower level of emotional engagement. Of course this does not account for the slow movement of his 6th Symphony or the Requiem.
I'm very much in favour of assessing each composer I encounter on stand-alone merit, i.e. how much
I engage with
them emotionally, intellectually or through pure enjoyment of the sounds that they present to my ear. In many ways, to put Parry and Stanford in double-harness is as misleading as the old practice (which seems laughable today) of coupling Bruckner and Mahler!
Thoroughly agree with both the last 2 postings, and the safe conclusion is that surely Parry and Stanford stand absolutely neck to neck. Apart from other considerations the sheer variety of their work - orchestral, chamber, choral, keyboard, songs - puts them in the highest rank. And - at the cost of risking my neck - above Elgar.
Funny, but in my - very prejudiced view - there's a world of difference between Haydn and Mozart. The one is an infinitely rewarding composer. The other is a proper dapper little b----r. However hard I try I just sit there recoiling from his music and find it glib and artificial however well crafted it may be. But I promptly dive under cover having doubtless quite disgraced myself.
Peter
You've not disgraced yourself in my book, Peter.
As for the Parry/Stanford issue, I'm with Albion on assessing a composer on his own merits. However, my response to the question of the emotional content of their music is rather different to his. To me, Parry is a much more reserved and circumspect composer than Stanford, whose music I find absolutely seethes with emotion, to the extent that it can be quite wearying. Parry, in his best music, is a case of still waters running deep, whereas Stanford's heart is firmly on his sleeve. Hmmm.... maybe I'm not disagreeing with Albion at all? What I would say is that I respond to Stanford's music with huge affection and return to it again and again with pleasure and satisfaction, whereas I respect Parry's music greatly but somehow don't make the same warm personal connection with it that is prompted by Stanford's.
I'm with Mark, I think. But, if pushed, I might take, say, Parry's 4th over any of Stanford's seven. Personally, I think the comparison's fascinating - they are two wonderful composers. Better than Elgar, though? Not for me: there's an extra degree of originality with EE that trumps anything by CVS or HP. Nevertheless, the opprobium heaped upon the two older composers is ridiculous and I return to their music with greater and greater pleasure these days.
PS. Did I say I preferred Parry 4? Well, I absolutely adore Stanford 1...
Stanford far outdid Parry in the concerto field. The only concerto of Parry that I know of is the PC in F-sharp Major (1880). Stanford composed some concertos that still sit on shelves awaiting resurrection.
BTW, forgive me for asking but I'm a little stumped about how to pronounce Parry. Due to the spelling, I guess. Does it rhyme with sorry or berry?
Not a concerto exactly but there is also Parry's organ concertstück.
Stanford- hrm. 3 piano concertos (all recorded), cello concerto (recorded), 2 violin concertos (one recorded, one may only be in violin/piano form but I'd like to hear it and see it published), clarinet concerto (recorded) - what else named concerto? :)
There is an early PC from his student days in B-flat still in MS. There is also another VC in D that he suppressed along with the Cello Concerto, also still in MS. I believe these are all still extant, although I don't recall where.
Concertante work from Stanford:
Cello:
Rondo (1869), unperformed
Concerto in d minor (1880)
Ballata and Ballabile, Op. 160 (1918)
Clarinet:
Concerto in a minor, Op. 80 (1902)
Piano:
Concerto in Bb (1874)
Concerto (no. 1) in G, Op. 59 (1894)
Concerto (no. 2) in c minor, Op. 126 (1911)
Concerto (no. 3) in Eb, Op. 171 (1919)
Concert variations on an English Theme, Op. 71 (1898)
Violin
Suite in D, Op. 32 (1888)
Concerto (no. 1) in D, Op. 74
Concerto (no. 2) in g minor, Op. 162 (1918)
Variations, Op. 180 (1921)
An Irish Concertino in d for violin, cello, Op. 161 (1918)
I have 9 of these 14 concertante pieces, my favorite would have to be the second piano concerto.
Cheers,
Balapoel
There is another, early VC, which may actually have been performed. All I know about it is that it is in D and was composed for Pacini, possibly during the mid-to-late 1870s.
Pacini the awesome opera composer? He died in 1867, and I don't know if he played the violin, but was it in honour of him? Or another Pacini? If it was in honour of the opera composer, I'd absolutely love to hear it, especially if it was some kind of stylistic-homage piece. A lot of people ridicule and hate that kind of thing, but if done well, it can be really fantastic. I'm pretty into Pacini's music, actually. I've got six of his complete operas, and a very generous someone helped me finally - literally after years of dreaming of it and thinking it was an unperformed/unrecorded work - get to listen to a performance of his Sinfonia Dante. That old Italian had a real knack for the dramatic. If Stanford was like many musicians of the 19th century, he might very well have liked Pacini.
There's a local radio station that's been giving Stanford some loving over the past year, much to my delight. In fact, just TODAY they played his entire 3rd Symphony! http://www.wvtf.org is the station, if you're interested. It's based in Virginia, in the USA. Just a couple of months ago, they put on his Concert Variations on an English Theme. The sheer quantity of music that I listen to has one drawback... it was during work, and I sometimes have to drive to schools, and I have this station on the radio the whole time that I'm driving. I'm hearing the last 3 minutes or so of this work after I start the vehicle, thinking how exciting it is, and how it sounds vaguely familiar. I make a special internal vow before it finishes that I'll memorise the composer and work to seek it out later. Then the announcer gives the title and composer and yep, I have it in my collection, and yep... heard it more than once! It's a long, convoluted story, but if not for this radio station, I'd probably never have heard of Charles Stanford (or Raff, for that matter).
Wow, has this gotten rambly. I just wanted to say, this radio station also put on Stanford's entire 5th symphony just a couple of months ago as well. It's quite rare that radio stations in the US will put on non-famous works of that length on in their entirety. At least one of his Irish Rhapsodies, a few chamber works, the Op.32 Suite for Violin and Orchestra, and probably a few other things have gotten airtime in the rural backwoods mountains of Virginia in the US-of-A. The 5th Symphony was aired with complimentary words by the announcer as well, if my memory's right.
Stanford is one that appeals to me quite a bit, and more over time. He wrote works that sound backwards-looking in a lot of ways. Coming from me, that's a huge compliment. His Symphony #7 came out in 1911. To avoid bothering anyone, I won't mention anything specific, but there was a lot of music written in and about 1911 (some of it quite famous) that makes me feel physically nauseated after a single minute. Stanford's Symphony #7 is far, far from that company in my book!
I love composers who feel that their position coming after a musical period gives them a vantage to try to use their future knowledge to write more in that period's style, rather than feeling that they have to rush away from it as fast as possible. A lot of composers (Pergolesi, Berlioz, Schönberg?) see a ladder and don't want to climb it, they just want to add new rungs on top. Other composers see a ladder built by others (Moscheles, Czerny, Foote?) and think that they can do plenty well without trying to extend it. After all, eventually it gets too tall (I'll avoid naming names) and just becomes unsafe, falls over, and it's just a complete wreck. In different cases, to my own particular taste, I do not see either ladder-builders or ladder-climbers as being superior or inferior to the other. I realise that most music scholars - practically all of them - consider only ladder-builders (or those they believe were ladder-builders) as being worthy of true consideration, but I've heard too much amazing music by composers I consider to be not-too-original. Ferdinand Ries is amazing in my book, and I agree completely with those who say he wasn't all that original. So what? Stanford doesn't sound to my untrained ears to be particularly of his time, especially in the 1910s. That's fine. Give me his 1910s music over most everything else that was composed in that time!
... wow, this may very well be the most poorly-written message ever posted to this forum. I'm too lazy and tired to clean it up right now, but I'll delete it if anyone finds it incomprehensible.
Summary? me like stanford. stanford maked good musics.
Pacini or Piatti?
Josh- as regards Schoenberg, that is... flipwise upsidedown inaccurate. Especially as regards what he wanted to do (what he actually succeeded in doing is more debatable. What he wanted to do was much more conservative and he never tired of saying so.)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 07 January 2011, 04:33
Pacini or Piatti?
I'm sorry. Neither. It was Guido Papini, and it dates from 1875. I've had the CD in my car for months and was trying to remember the name of that dratted violinist. Mind go bye-bye...
Quote from: JimL on Friday 07 January 2011, 00:25BTW, forgive me for asking but I'm a little stumped about how to pronounce Parry. Due to the spelling, I guess. Does it rhyme with sorry or berry?
Try rhyming with marry, carry, tarry, Larry and Barry ... ;D
Quote from: Balapoel on Friday 07 January 2011, 02:54
Concertante work from Stanford:
Cello:
Rondo (1869), unperformed
Concerto in d minor (1880)
Ballata and Ballabile, Op. 160 (1918)
Clarinet:
Concerto in a minor, Op. 80 (1902)
Piano:
Concerto in Bb (1874)
Concerto (no. 1) in G, Op. 59 (1894)
Concerto (no. 2) in c minor, Op. 126 (1911)
Concerto (no. 3) in Eb, Op. 171 (1919)
Concert variations on an English Theme, Op. 71 (1898)
Violin
Suite in D, Op. 32 (1888)
Concerto (no. 1) in D, Op. 74
Concerto (no. 2) in g minor, Op. 162 (1918)
Variations, Op. 180 (1921)
An Irish Concertino in d for violin, cello, Op. 161 (1918)
I have 9 of these 14 concertante pieces, my favorite would have to be the second piano concerto.
Cheers,
Balapoel
The list should also properly include the
Irish Rhapsody No.3, Op.137 (1913) for 'cello and orchestra, the
Concert Piece for organ and orchestra, Op.181 (1921) and
Irish Rhapsody No.6, Op.191 (1922) for violin and orchestra.
Balapoel, if you don't have
Ballata and Ballabile, Op.160 or the Irish Concertino, Op.161 please see the thread
British music broadcasts - I've uploaded off-air recordings of both.
has someone recorded the violin variations op.180? I was counting the works in that list and thinking that 9 of the 14 had been recorded and were ... probably the ones referred to- but not definitely :) - and that Ballata and Ballabile (in its cello/piano form on Meridian, though) was among those referred to...
Yes, thanks again Albion!
The one's I have:
Concerto in d minor (1880)
Ballata and Ballabile, Op. 160 (1918) (thanks Albion)
Concerto in a minor, Op. 80 (1902)
Concerto (no. 1) in G, Op. 59 (1894)
Concerto (no. 2) in c minor, Op. 126 (1911)
Concerto (no. 3) in Eb, Op. 171 (1919)
Concert variations on an English Theme, Op. 71 (1898)
Suite in D, Op. 32 (1888)
An Irish Concertino in d for violin, cello, Op. 161 (1918) (thanks to Albion)
Irish rhapsody no. 3 in D, op. 137 - for vc and orch (1913)
Irish Rhapsody no. 6 in d minor, Op. 191 - for vn and orch (1922).
Does anyone know the status of Rhapsody No. 2 in F (1902-3, incomplete?), op. 79? Is it in fact lost?
Balapoel
Quote from: Balapoel on Friday 07 January 2011, 20:57
Does anyone know the status of Rhapsody No. 2 in F (1902-3, incomplete?), op. 79? Is it in fact lost?
Balapoel
Stanford's first attempt at a second
Irish Rhapsody (Op.79) was abandoned after only 72 bars, but the autograph score is at the Robinson Library, Newcastle University (NUL 23).
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 07 January 2011, 12:47
has someone recorded the violin variations op.180? I was counting the works in that list and thinking that 9 of the 14 had been recorded and were ... probably the ones referred to- but not definitely :) - and that Ballata and Ballabile (in its cello/piano form on Meridian, though) was among those referred to...
No, the Variations for Violin and Orchestra, Op.180 have never been performed and only exist in a version for piano and violin. The autograph score, completed 5th January 1921, is at the Dorset Rural Music School, Blandford Forum.
I've only heard the Hyperion recordings of the suite in D and violin concerto (no.1) in D op.74 on the radio so far, but can't help noticing you list one but not the other :)
Quote from: Albion on Thursday 06 January 2011, 18:56The glaring omission is the operas - especially Much Ado About Nothing (1901) and The Travelling Companion (1916).
The BBC once broadcast some extracts from
The Travelling Companion that made a big impression on me at the time. Sadly the supernatural nature of the plot would probably prevent a modern production.
R. Wagner's Ring cycle has a completely supernatural plot and gets produced all the time.
Thomas' Hamlet has a ghost in it, if it is true to the Shakespeare play, that is. It was just produced at the Met last season. Verdi's Macbeth has three witches - pretty supernatural to me. Did not Britten compose an opera based on The Turn of the Screw? I've never seen it live, but that's a ghost story. I don't think that supernatural elements are a bar to production; as a matter of fact, most people enjoy a good spook yarn.
Regarding the 'Travelling Companion'. I would love to hear this one. The supernatural plot would be a plus point for me! 'Kate & the Devil','Schwanda',Der Freischutz','Hans Heiling' & 'Hansel & Gretel',and Humperdinck's,recently released,(by cpo), 'Dornroschen',when I can get my hands on a copy,have all scored pretty highly in my collection. It is reputed to be one of his best & I think you are referring to some highlights which were broadcast a couple of years ago,back in the 1990's,I think. Unfortunately,I missed it. The supernatural trappings,(?) would be fine on cd,anyway,(the ideal medium). And Chandos did V-W's lovely & long overdue 'The Poisoned Kiss',which,in terms of plot is as daft as opera can get,(even dafter than that,actually!).
Not quite, Josh. The Ring is based on ancient Nordic sagas, and its characters upon mythological figures in those sagas. Nothing 'supernatural' about it, anymore than any opera or musical work based upon a literary work, or for that matter a Biblical oratorio by Handel. However we're all quite forgetting the thread, viz Stanford!
Peter
You're quite right. I passed a dwarf in the street,just the other day.
Quote from: Pengelli on Saturday 08 January 2011, 17:11
Regarding the 'Travelling Companion'. I would love to hear this one. The supernatural plot would be a plus point for me! 'Kate & the Devil','Schwanda',Der Freischutz','Hans Heiling' & 'Hansel & Gretel',and Humperdinck's,recently released,(by cpo), 'Dornroschen',when I can get my hands on a copy,have all scored pretty highly in my collection. It is reputed to be one of his best & I think you are referring to some highlights which were broadcast a couple of years ago,back in the 1990's,I think. Unfortunately,I missed it. The supernatural trappings,(?) would be fine on cd,anyway,(the ideal medium). And Chandos did V-W's lovely & long overdue 'The Poisoned Kiss',which,in terms of plot is as daft as opera can get,(even dafter than that,actually!).
The
Travelling Companion, based on Hans Anderson, is basically a version of the
Turandot fable, with riddles set by a cold, icy Princess - her father is a wizard, hence the supernatural element. Henry Newbolt's libretto is tightly-structured and reads surprisingly well today.
I rejoiced mightily when the Hickox recording of
The Poisoned Kiss came out - I keep badgering Chandos to do a similar service for Holst's
The Perfect Fool (1923): apparently Andrew Davis is quite interested.
I keep badgering them about 'The Perfect Fool', too,although I'm not such a musicologist as you, it just seems plain daft to only be able to hear the ballet music. Chandos do 'seem' to be coming around,after years of disinterest.
The 'Travelling Companion' sounds VERY intriguing. I know my Hans Anderson from my mothers old copy,(NOT Danny Kaye!) It's one of his best stories,if I remember correctly,although Newboldt's version is obviously a little different!
Oh well, I'm going to get to hear another Humperdinck opera,aren't I?
Okay,back to the main thread........
I'm not sure of the plot of The Perfect Fool, but something about the title suggests Arthurian legend (perhaps because it was Sir Percival who found the Holy Grail, and 'Percival' is derived from 'Parsifal' which translates from the Arabic as 'Perfect Fool'). Am I barking up the right tree?
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Saturday 08 January 2011, 17:11
"mythological figures"
"Nothing 'supernatural' about it"
I'm so confused. I thought I remembered it being about gods and stuff. That's about as supernatural as it can possibly be. So I can't understand how that would be a mark against Stanford. What would be in his opera that's more supernatural than a pantheon of deities??!
Quote from: JimL on Saturday 08 January 2011, 20:35
I'm not sure of the plot of The Perfect Fool, but something about the title suggests Arthurian legend (perhaps because it was Sir Percival who found the Holy Grail, and 'Percival' is derived from 'Parsifal' which translates from the Arabic as 'Perfect Fool'). Am I barking up the right tree?
"The action, such as it is, turns on the inability or unwillingness of the Fool to take any interest in wooing a Princess, despite the prompting of his Mother and competition from a Wizard, and in the final scene the fool yawns and falls asleep from sheer apathy, to the consternation of everyone, not least the audience" (Michael Short,
Gustav Holst, OUP, 1990, p.211).
The libretto appears very similair in spirit to 'The Poisoned Kiss'. According to Wikipedia Holst wrote it himself,after Clifford Bax declined?
Two English opera's about Wizards,with 'ballet music' (?)
Holst 'The Perfect Fool' (1918-22)
Holbrooke 'The Enchanter' (1914/15?
And an alchemist:
Scott 'The Alchemist' (1917-18)
V-W's 'The Poisoned Kiss' is of course from a few years later.
Interesting! Of course there was allot of interest in esoteric stuff like that at the time, eg Blavatsky,Crowley,The Golden Dawn,Spiritualism,etc,although VW wouldn't have been interested. He just wanted a libretto for an operetta.
I'm not sure if Ethel Smyth did't write an opera with a fantastical subject too? Maybe not!
Isn't that around the time that Conan Doyle took up a belief in the reality of fairies due to some doctored photos? Or do I have my literary figures conflated?
That's it,JimL. One of them confessed on her deathbed,apparently,that they were faked,but her sister continued to insist that the photo's were genuine. Remember the fairies all had twenties hair do's? But then again,perhaps they like to keep up with the Jones's too!
I always feel a bit sorry for Doyle. He lost his son and,ok he was VERY gullible,but I think their cynical manipulation of his grief was rather cruel. It was all about them!
Anyway,before I get moderated for turning this forum into the 'Fortean Times'........
Back to Josh (and maybe an unimportant tangent).
First, there's nothing in my point above that "counts against" Stanford. I hold him to be a great composer - and I've had the knuckles rapped for admitting I find him more satisfying than Elgar.
Second, and in an attempt to sort out conceptual confusions (and to appeal to the dubious standard of 'ordinary usage'), I do think there's a distinction between 'supernatural' and 'mythological'. Many operas and other musical works are based upon myths, legends, ancient sagas and so on. So that includes things as various as Wagner's Ring, Strauss' Daphne, some Handel oratorios and many many others. They are based on such things as Nordic sagas, Greek mythology, Biblical texts and so forth, and these texts at least purport to be representations of characters or events that are 'real'.
In contrast the 'supernatural' surely deals with characters who aren't 'real' (whatever that tricky word 'real' might mean) and events that are not explicable by reference to established natural laws but whose occurrance could only be explained through the workings of non-natural (or supernatural) agencies. Thus we're talking fairies, ghosts, spirits, magic bullets, things that go bump in the night.
True, some of the events in the Ring sure aren't everyday events (folk walking up a bridge to Valhalla, a chap summoning up fire or thunderclouds by striking a hammer, a mechanism for changing one's appearance into a toad, a lump of gold whose possession gives mastery over the world, going to sleep for a very long time on a rock, slaying a dragon or two etc etc). But it would seem very odd to say the Ring deals with the 'supernatural' - the ancient texts and Wagner's own libretto present these characters and events as having really existed. Same with operas based on Biblical texts. In contrast, to take but one example, Weber's Freischutz deals with things that can't possibly be explained within naturalistic terms and hence deals with the 'supernatural'?
Admittedly the distinction is a bit thin in some cases, but it is one perhaps worth making. And the main point: the validity of the distinction has no bearing at all on the worth of the music or our enjoyment of it. End of tangent?
Now, rubbing the hands in glee, I get back to Helene Raff - which I'm finding a hugely absorbing book!
Peter
Well, when you deal with such operas as Der Freischutz, or, say, Der Vampyr, or Robert le Diable, what then? Remember that all these 'supernatural' phenomena are more-or-less associated with Satan, who is a religious/mythological figure, at least in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world. I'm not so sure about Vampyr, but I believe that he is actually depicted as Samiel, the Black Huntsman in Freischutz, and may even make a cameo appearance in Robert. In any event, the point is that this shouldn't be an obstacle to production of Stanford's opera.
Yes, JimL, that's just why I said the distinction between the mythological and the supernatural is a bit 'thin' at times. Nonetheless it is a generally useful distinction, just like the distinction between wet and dry weather - though sometimes in damp and drizzly weather when there are no puddles to step into it isn't quite clear whether its correct to say it is raining or not!
Nonetheless I rule my posting both a red herring and a damp squib (I was just reacting to what seemed to me a confusion) and the hair-splitting isn't any kind of obstacle at all to a performance or recording of the Stanford opera. If that took place, then, wow, it would be an event to really celebrate!
Peter
And so back to the subject of the thread, perchance...?
A 1991 performance of the Overture to Stanford's opera The Canterbury Pilgrims (1884) can now be found in Folder 3 of British Music Broadcasts.
The opera, to a libretto by Gilbert A Beckett, was first performed by the Carl Rosa Company on 28th April 1884 at Drury Lane Theatre, receiving four performances in London before being taken on tour. Stanford failed in his attempt to have the opera performed in Vienna under Richter, and there have been no revivals since the original production. In 1885 Joachim conducted the Overture in Berlin, and it was also heard at a Philharmonnic Society concert on 21st April 1887.
A brief synopsis: The first act is set in the courtyard of the Tabard Inn in Southwark at five in the morning one day around the close of the fourteenth century. The apprentice Hubert leads a small group of colleagues in a birthday madrigal addressed to Cicely, daughter of the innkeeper Geoffrey, with whom he has an understanding. Geoffrey drives them away but Hubert sneaks back. Cicely tells him her father is sending her on the pilgrimage to Canterbury with her maiden aunt to break their relationship. The pilgrims duly arrive and are served. Meanwhile the elderly Sir Christopher and his follower Hal o' the Chepe arrive. Sir Christopher lusts after Cicely, and Hal has a plan to abduct her on the road. Little realising their relationship, he invites Hubert to help them. As they arrange to meet at Sidenbourne, Sir Christopher's wife Dame Margery arrives, suspiciously following her husband. Her questioning of Geoffrey provokes his suspicions also, and at the end of the act all set out for Sidenbourne, either intent on amorous schemes or on foiling them. That night at Sidenbourne confusion reigns. Hubert, dressed as a holy friar, manages to send Geoffrey off on a wild-goose chase, while Dame Margery hides her face whilst keeping a close eye on her husband. With Margery's blessing, Hubert and Cicely run off together and the abduction attempt is foiled. In the final act, Hubert is tried for decoying a maiden by the local judge — Sir Christopher — and condemned to six years in prison, but Dame Margery's intervention on Hubert's side carries the day, and she finally persuades Geoffrey to accept young Hubert's suit.
Further thanks are due, Albion, for the Overture recording. Very thoughtful.
As one confirmed Stanfordian to another, this will have to do in lieu of the complete opera! :)
This evening (as a break from Holbrooke and Rootham) I've been revisiting Stanford's Requiem (1897) and Stabat mater (1907). I've been struck once again by the extraordinarily high quality of the music - even to a confirmed atheist, the third movement of the Requiem ('Requiem eternam') and the close of the Stabat mater ('Paradisi gloria') surely have to be some of the most sublime and moving settings ever penned.
Stanford was a composer of the highest calibre - if any members have not yet heard them, I'd strongly recommend the Naxos (Requiem) and Chandos (Stabat mater) recordings.
Quote from: Albion on Thursday 20 January 2011, 22:06Stanford was a composer of the highest calibre
That, I believe, is hyperbole. He was certainly a composer of a very high calibre indeed. But not of the highest...
I'm second to none, not even Albion, in my admiration for Stanford, whose works give me unfailing pleasure and satisfaction but I do think Alan right to raise an eyebrow at that remark. I'd certainly say that he is amongst those of the highest calibre amongst unsungs. Alan may quibble at that too, and fair enough, but it seems fair to me.
I'm happy-ish with what Mark says. I think there are a few unsungs who have more original voices than Stanford, but he was a very, very fine composer indeed.
You'll remember that we've debated before those whose genius was to be original and those whose genus was to sum up an epoch. I certainly don't think Stanford's forte was originality, but as a "summer upper" he has only a few equals.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Thursday 20 January 2011, 22:34
You'll remember that we've debated before those whose genius was to be original and those whose genus was to sum up an epoch. I certainly don't think Stanford's forte was originality, but as a "summer upper" he has only a few equals.
A point well made (perhaps I was a little hyperbolic in my eulogy, but I would still strongly recommend the recordings!). Stanford was a composer whose output was uneven, but when on top-form (in the Requiem, Stabat mater,
Irish Rhapsodies 3 & 4, Symphonies 5 & 6) he was a composer who can move us and cause us to sit back in wonder at the ethereal spirit called 'inspiration'. :)
Originality takes many forms on the one hand and its most noticeable forms are overrated (and I say this not to knock modernism, some of whose exponents produce(d) music I like a lot and which hasn't come up, but as something of a truism??... - paraphrasing Anton Rubinstein I think - in the first part - but I think he got it basically right ...)
And yet when you hear something truly original, it strikes you straight away. Try Rufinatscha 5 and tell me who wrote anything like that before he did...
I've had allot of Stanford cd's in my collection for some time,but while I have found some of the music pleasent I have never been quite able to understand the enthusiasm here.
Last night after reading more posts about Stanford I decided to give the symphonies another go. This time I used the program button for my Chandos cd of Symphony No 4, (excluding the other items,so I could focus on the symphony,itself). It stayed on repeat all night! And what a gorgeous slow movement. It's hard to believe that this was a first recording.
A new recording from Claves of Stanford's Piano Concerto No.2 coupled with the Down Among the Dead Men Variations (the same pairing of works as on Margaret Fingerhut's Chandos disc) has been awarded an Editor's Choice thumbs-up in the May issue of Gramophone -
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Claves/501101 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Claves/501101)
With three excellent recordings (including Malcolm Binns on Lyrita) currently available, there's no excuse for anyone to turn a deaf ear to this highly engaging and impressive concerto! ;)
The new Claves recording of PC2 is IMHO the best there is: I have never heard the brass so thrillingly recorded at the start of the piece and overall the marriage of power and sensitivity makes this a very special performance indeed. Thoroughly recommended!
Quote from: Albion on Sunday 03 April 2011, 09:54
A new recording from Claves of Stanford's Piano Concerto No.2 coupled with the Down Among the Dead Men Variations (the same pairing of works as on Margaret Fingerhut's Chandos disc) has been awarded an Editor's Choice thumbs-up in the May issue of Gramophone -
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Claves/501101 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Claves/501101)
With three excellent recordings (including Malcolm Binns on Lyrita) currently available, there's no excuse for anyone to turn a deaf ear to this highly engaging and impressive concerto! ;)
I have the Fingerhut disc. I'll have to dig it up, but IIRC it's on Hyperion, not Chandos.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F4zx167ML._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Interesting. Chandos must have picked up the master from Hyperion somehow. Those are the same performers as my Hyperion, except that mine doesn't have the Irish Rhaposodies.
Hi Jim, it was never on Hyperion - here is the original 1989 incarnation of the CD
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/39/86/eaa9eb6709a0472a0ae80110.L.jpg) (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a3/a5/cfe9eb6709a0372a0ae80110.L.jpg)
Great! Now I'll actually have to go dig it up! Maybe I've conflated it with my MacKenzie VC/Pibroch CD. That DEFINITELY is on Hyperion!
P.S. If you're right, don't laugh too hard. Juvenile dementia isn't funny!
The pianist in the new recording, Finghin Collins, is the young Irishman who played Stanford 2 at the Proms a few seasons ago. It was a smashing performance. Thanks for mentioning this disc...I'll order it ASAP.
David
Shore 'nuff, I searched it out and found that it was...Chandos. It just looked like Hyperion when I closed my eyes. ;D
I've spent this cloudy Sunday listening and (re)discovering Stanford. I don't know what went wrong in the past, but I found his PC1 never appealing. Until today. And next I've given the Chandos double disc another listen. What a most lovely works, especially the 6 Irish Rhapsodies. But that's all I have.
It's about time to explore Stanford. To start with I'm thinking of the Lyrita CD featuring the PC3 and CC, the VC and his symphonies. Which version do you recommend? Naxos or Chandos? Any other recommendations?
Quote from: Peter1953 on Sunday 06 November 2011, 13:58It's about time to explore Stanford. To start with I'm thinking of the Lyrita CD featuring the PC3 and CC, the VC and his symphonies. Which version do you recommend? Naxos or Chandos? Any other recommendations?
I would strongly recommend all of the following (with a few overlaps of repertoire) -
Symphonies 1-7 and Clarinet Concerto - Naxos rather than Chandos
Irish Rhapsodies 1-6 and Variations on Down Among the Deadmen - Chandos
Piano Concerto No.1 - Hyperion
Piano Concerto No.2 and Irish Rhapsody No.4 - Lyrita
Piano Concerto No.3 - Lyrita
Violin Concerto and Suite for Violin and Orchestra - Hyperion
Cello Concerto and Ballata and Ballabile - Hyperion
Requiem - Naxos
Stabat mater - Chandos
The Revenge, Songs of the Sea and Songs of the Fleet - Chandos
String Quintet No.1 and Piano Quintet - Hyperion :)
Thanks very much for your useful recommendations, John. I've just finished my shopping at mdt.co.uk
My favorite Stanford Pf Concerto 2/Down Among the Dead Men recording is Finghin Collins on Claves. A wonderful performance, and the recording has a clarity that does justice to S's sometimes thick scoring. To my mind, the 2nd concerto is the most completely successful of Stanford's works w/orchestra. It's criminal that almost no one plays it.
I seem to remember that Vaughn Williams once predicted that the Stabat Mater would survive the eclipse of Stanford's reputation, and it's also a wonderful piece. Better, more consistant, IMO, than the big Requiem (which also contains much fine music.) But I'd start with the Chandos Stabat Mater disc.
David
Quote from: Peter1953 on Sunday 06 November 2011, 15:53I've just finished my shopping at mdt.co.uk
I'm setting up a UC commune down on
(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2009/02/18/va1237355668747/poverty-row-6491966.jpg)
:'(
All are welcome!
;D
What about the Piano Concerto No "0". The 1st one he ever composed. I hope the manuscript survives!
Quote from: FBerwald on Monday 07 November 2011, 17:16What about the Piano Concerto No "0". The 1st one he ever composed. I hope the manuscript survives!
According to Jeremy Dibble, the manuscript is at the Newcastle University Robinson Library -
Piano Concerto in B flat major
dedicated to Raoul de Versan
completed 11th January 1873
first performed Cambridge 3rd June 1874 by F.G. le P. McClintock, conducted by StanfordPaul Rodmell gives the call number as
NUL78 :)
and except for the fact that the Victoria Institute's transactions lists this person as "FG Le P. McClintock, AB, Ireland", I have not a clue who that could be, and which initials might be title and which given name ;)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Monday 07 November 2011, 22:02
and except for the fact that the Victoria Institute's transactions lists this person as "FG Le P. McClintock, AB, Ireland", I have not a clue who that could be, and which initials might be title and which given name ;)
Rodmell mentions twice one Frank McClintock, a friend of CVS with whom he travelled through Europe in 1874 and who performed Beethoven's C minor PC with Stanford conducting. Maybe the same? :-\
Quote from: britishcomposer on Monday 07 November 2011, 22:27Rodmell mentions twice one Frank McClintock, a friend of CVS with whom he travelled through Europe in 1874 and who performed Beethoven's C minor PC with Stanford conducting. Maybe the same? :-\
Surely no coincidence - most likely the same.
:)
So there could be a possibility of this work being recorded??!!??
The Newsletter of The Classical Shop has this stunning news:
New Stanford orchestration
A new orchestration of Violin Concerto No. 2 by Sir Charles Villiers Stanford, a work which the composer left in a version for violin and piano at his death, has been completed by Jeremy Dibble.
The premiere will be given in Durham on 2nd March - http://www.dur.ac.uk/whatson/event/?eventno=11920 (http://www.dur.ac.uk/whatson/event/?eventno=11920)
:)
Wonderful news! But didn't the liner notes for the recent Hyperion RCC release hint that there was a certain orchestral effect in the VC 2 that he also used in one of the cello works, which, to me at least, indicated that someone had possession of, or at least knowledge of the full score of VC 2?
This is indeed great news. Perhaps Rupert Marshall-Luck will be recording the piece subsequent to this first performance...?
Anyway, here's a link to details of the concert:
http://www.thestanfordsociety.org/event2012.aspx (http://www.thestanfordsociety.org/event2012.aspx)
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 19 February 2012, 18:17Perhaps Rupert Marshall-Luck will be recording the piece subsequent to this first performance...?
It would be a prime candidate for his wife's EM record label.
:)
EM(-L)'s EM label, eh?
EM = Em = Em Marshall = English Music [Festival], or Irish in this case ...
;)
Quite so...
Well, Jeremy Dibble is the Stanford expert, so it bodes very well. Great news.
Quote from: Jimfin on Thursday 03 May 2012, 01:26Yes, Stanford's non-church settings of the Latin liturgy are a lovely thing, the Requiem, the Stabat and that op. 66 Te Deum. He also set the Latin mass, I believe, which I suppose would have been in a similar vein
Stanford appears to have produced at least five settings of the Latin mass, only two of which are extant -
1892 - Mass in G, for soli, chorus and orchestra, Op.46 (Brompton Oratory, London, 26th May 1893)
c.1919 - Mass in D minor, for unaccompanied chorus, Op.169 (unperformed and lost)
1919 - Mass
Via Victrix 1914-1918, for soli, chorus and orchestra, Op.173 (only partially performed)
1920 - Mass for 8 voices unaccompanied (Westminster Cathedral, London, 4th April 1920) (lost)
c.1920 - Mass, for unaccompanied chorus, Op. 176 (unperformed and lost)
Thank you. Something for Chandos to chew on, perhaps? Though I'm even keener to hear the operas, especially after the tantalising extracts available on UC.
A further trawl through the fruits of research generously made available by Durham University has brought this to light - http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/2542/ (http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/2542/).
This is an agglomeration of contemporaneous press commentary on Stanford's choral works - as such the remit is narrow but it is very useful to have reviews gathered in one source. Still a woefully unexplored area of Stanford's output, there is much here to stimulate interest.
It is wonderful that these resources are being made generally available - would that other universities followed suit.
:)
QuoteStanford appears to have produced at least five settings of the Latin mass, only two of which are extant -
1892 - Mass in G, for soli, chorus and orchestra, Op.46 (Brompton Oratory, London, 26th May 1893)
c.1919 - Mass in D minor, for unaccompanied chorus, Op.169 (unperformed and lost)
1919 - Mass Via Victrix 1914-1918, for soli, chorus and orchestra, Op.173 (only partially performed)
1920 - Mass for 8 voices unaccompanied (Westminster Cathedral, London, 4th April 1920) (lost)
c.1920 - Mass, for unaccompanied chorus, Op. 176 (unperformed and lost)
I am not sure if this has been posted elsewhere yet on this site (and apologies if so) but I came across news of an interesting Stanford premiere coming up this October:
http://seenandheard-international.com/2018/07/a-major-work-by-stanford-to-be-premiered-99-years-late/ (http://seenandheard-international.com/2018/07/a-major-work-by-stanford-to-be-premiered-99-years-late/)
Thanks for this, what a fascinating prospect! Fingers crossed for a recording, or a broadcast at least.
The BBC website already does have what seems to be a list of performers and placeholder for the eventual broadcast of the October 27 performance... so I'd say the latter's fairly likely :)
(The rest of the program seems thematically appropriate- Frederick Kelly's Elegy for Strings, and Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin.)
Oh, yes, thank you Savoir_Faire. It's heartening to hear that a neglected work - especially one by Stanford - has been 'resurrected'. Fingers crossed that a recording is on the cards, and - if not - that someone will take on off-air recording.
Thanks, Eric, but the BBC bookmark is for the concert itself (because it's a BBC orchestra at a BBC venue), and not necessarily for a broadcast, so my fingers remain crossed.
Very exciting! Stanford never disappoints in my experience. But how odd that he apparently wrote three unaccompanied masses and lost them all in the space of a few years. I would imagine that these works are likely to be different versions of the same project, though I doubt anyone has any way of knowing now.
QuoteStanford never disappoints in my experience
I'd have too dissent from that, but he's a very fine composer nonetheless.
"Never" is maybe a tad too sweeping, but "seldom" certainly covers it.
I'll go with that!
For those interested in Stanford's operas, there will be a performance of his last opera, 'The Travelling Companion' at Cadogan Hall, London on 30th November.
Relating to The Travelling Companion (an intriguing piece), there are also performances of this New Sussex Opera staging in Lewes and Eastbourne (November 21 and 22) before the London night, and one in Saffron Walden after it (on December 2, when it will be recorded for CD release).
There is also a substantial feature article about Stanford's published and unpublished operas in the November issue of Opera magazine, for those who subscribe.
Quotewhen it will be recorded for CD release
Glory be!
CD release for which label ?
Somm.
Here are the details:
http://www.thestanfordsociety.org/the-travelling-companion-2018/ (http://www.thestanfordsociety.org/the-travelling-companion-2018/)
I'm so frustrated that I can't make the Cadogan Hall performance.
I can't believe it's being performed in Saffron Walden! I lived there when I was five and my parents still live nearish, but sadly I'm in Japan!
Following my earlier posting about the Stanford Mass 'Via Victrix', I see that a review of this concert has now appeared on musicwebinternational's 'Seen and Heard' page, which says that it will be broadcast on BBCR3 on November 5th, and that this will be followed at some point by a CD issue on Lyrita:
http://seenandheard-international.com/2018/10/stanford-premiere-in-cardiff-after-one-hundred-years/ (http://seenandheard-international.com/2018/10/stanford-premiere-in-cardiff-after-one-hundred-years/)
Thanks Savoir_Faire. It's an interesting review. The Lyrita disc will be very welcome indeed!