Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Sunday 09 October 2022, 17:48

Title: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 09 October 2022, 17:48
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2UJn46OhY

Info here:
https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/coenen-frans
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Coenen_(musicus) (in Dutch)
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Ilja on Monday 10 October 2022, 09:39
I've been interested in Coenen for a while now, and I really had no idea that he wrote any major orchestral pieces without choir. The Youtube channel is apparently the work of the ProNeM foundation, which is dedicated to the cause of unsung Dutch composers: here's more information about Coenen (https://www.pronem.nl/frans-coenen/). His older brother Johannes's Ali Baba overture (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8W8kFpeQjg) is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8W8kFpeQjg).

Edit: I'm wondering what their source is, though. I can find absolutely nothing about either of Coenen's symphonies in the Netherlands Music Institute or one of the standard work. Will email them. The YT channel has quite a few works.

Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 10:40
Thanks, Ilja. Looking forward to any information you can find for us.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Ilja on Monday 10 October 2022, 10:42
None of the reference works I have consulted so far make mention of symphonies written by Frans Coenen. However, Letzer (Letzer, J.H. Muzikaal Nederland 1850-1910. Bio-bibliographisch woordenboek van Nederlandse toonkunstenaars en toonkunstenaressen, alsmede van schrijvers en schrijfsters op muziek-literarisch gebied. Utrecht: J.L. Beijers, 1913; online here (https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/letz001muzi01_01/index.php).) does mention multiple (at least two) written by his brother Johannes. I rather suspect the channel has swapped the brothers around.

I'll report back once I receive a reply from the foundation.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Reverie on Monday 10 October 2022, 11:39
I have the score of Johannes Coenen's Symphony in B minor (1865) and started a realisation of it some time ago. I've just listened to it and it comes across as very attractive. I only managed the slow intro as far as the Allegro. I'll do a bit more and stick a link to it if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 14:29
Thanks. It'd be good to know whether it was Frans or Johannes who composed the symphony uploaded to YouTube.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 10 October 2022, 15:20
btw, his violin sonata in G minor can be viewed @ Google Books (https://books.google.com/books?id=NXRSAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA1).
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 10 October 2022, 15:45
Also, _here's_ the score of (https://uurl.kbr.be/1759619) the Johannes Coenen symphony in B minor, the only one I have found, for comparison. If it's the same work as on the YouTube, that solves the problem?

(Actually, I see Reverie has the score too, and would have mentioned if they were the same work. Sorry...)
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 16:54
Well, for a start the symphony on YouTube doesn't have a slow introduction, so...
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Ilja on Monday 10 October 2022, 18:52
It might be Johannes's second, of course. But the site of the foundation is quite adamant that Frans wrote two as well. We'll see; I'm off to the Netherlands Music Institute tomorrow (where I was going to go anyhow, so this is a lucky coincidence).
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 19:15
My old Grove (4th Edition) says that Frans wrote 'a symphony' and that Johannes wrote 'two symphonies'.

We now need proper evidence!
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 20:03
The above information is confirmed in 'Musik der Romantik' (by Alfred Baumgartner/pub. Kiesel Verlag 1983). Of course, this could simply have been copied from one reference book to another.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 October 2022, 21:18
Question: were Frans and Johannes actually brothers, or merely related to each other? 'Musik der Romantik' (see above) suggests the latter.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Wheesht on Monday 10 October 2022, 22:24
According to myheritage Frans (Franciscus Hendrikus) Coenen was the son of Louis (Ludovicus) Coenen and Anna Francisca Coenen née Schmidt – whereas Johannes Meinardus Coenen (1824-1899) was the son of Cornelis Coenen and Johanna Elisabeth Coenen, née De Barnsten. Not brothers, then.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 08:00
It seems that we're dealing with more confusion here, since there are actually two Dutch composers called Frans Coenen. The first, Franciscus Hendrikus (http://resources.huygens.knaw.nl/retroboeken/nnbw/#source=7&page=159&view=imagePane) (1826-1904) wasn't the brother of Johannes (http://resources.huygens.knaw.nl/bwn1880-2000/lemmata/bwn5/coenen) (1824-1899), and neither was the much younger Frans (http://resources.huygens.knaw.nl/bwn1880-2000/lemmata/bwn2/coenen) (1866-1936), who belonged to the same generation as Zweers and Daniël de Lange, with whom he founded the Amsterdam Conservatory. The latter one seems to have written more orchestral music, and seems like a better match as the author of this symphony (but for the moment, that's mere speculation on my part). Investigations continue.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 08:59
QuoteThe latter one

I assume you mean Johannes...

Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 12:51
Reply on YouTube to my query concerning the identity of the composer:

QuoteThis is a new edition taken from the handwritten score by Frans Coenen; his name is on the front and after the last bar.

I have asked whether they have any details about date of composition and key signature - and also whether they know anything about Frans' 1st Symphony.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 15:35
I've had a look, and the musical output of Frans jr. is pretty insignificant (some piano works, not much), which rules him out as the composer of the symphony. Franciscus sr. it is, then - probably.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 18:31
OK thanks, Ilja.

So, just to be clear: we're talking here about the Symphony No.2 by Franciscus Hendrikus Coenen (Rotterdam, 26 December 1826 - Leiden, 24 January 1904), known as Frans Coenen Sr.
(See Wikipedia article in Dutch - link in first post)
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 19:12
Edit: oh, ok, Frans Coenen jr. IS the son of Frans Coenen sr., though again usually? often? jr/sr is reserved for exact same long name. However, my mistake as to their relation...
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 October 2022, 20:14
No problem, Eric.
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: AtzeD on Sunday 16 October 2022, 11:15
Eduard Reeser, who was an authority on Dutch music in the nineteenth century, mentions in his book 'Een eeuw Nederlandse muziek, 1815-1915' (A Century of Dutch Music, 1815-1915) (1950) a Symphony in F Major by Frans Coenen, ,,which remains in manuscript''. To add to the confusion: the foto used in the YouTube-video of the symphony of Frans Coenen is attributed in the book of Reeser to Johannes Meinardus Coenen...
Title: Re: Frans Coenen (1826-1904) Symphony No.2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 13 December 2022, 17:10
I am informed that Symphony No.2 is in A minor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2UJn46OhY&lc=Ugzb8jTPBYbGitG-Wjx4AaABAg.9h-kCPkTkoN9j_qvAEK3-G

No.1 is in F major.