Arriving home late last night somewhat the worse for wear following a boozy meal out, I succumbed to Presto's tempting CPO offer and ordered the five-disc boxed-set of Pfitzner (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/CPO/9992492 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/CPO/9992492)).
Drunken shortly-to-be-regretted impulse or prudent purchase? ???
Depends. The only problem i find is that Pfitzner has "no individual voice" or "is a mixture of so many influences" that I find myself at sea when I listen to him. His Piano concerto has a brilliant beginning but (at least for me) then it sort of rambles here and there. His cello concertos are better. Nevertheless its a pleasant experience (depending upon my mood!!!!).
By the way One word of caution: Do not read the booklet on an empty stomach!!! The author lets his mind (and brain) wander and instead of an informative text regarding the compositions, what you do get is a small novella of psycho-babble about the composer which is very confusing.
Quote from: FBerwald on Friday 25 February 2011, 10:19
Depends. The only problem i find is that Pfitzner has "no individual voice" or "is a mixture of so many influences" that I find myself at sea when I listen to him. His Piano concerto has a brilliant beginning but (at least for me) then it sort of rambles here and there. His cello concertos are better. Nevertheless its a pleasant experience (depending upon my mood!!!!).
By the way One word of caution: Do not read the booklet on an empty stomach!!! The author lets his mind (and brain) wander and instead of an informative text regarding the compositions, what you do get is a small novella of psycho-babble about the composer which is very confusing.
Thanks for this - the booklet-annotations of several CPO releases in my possession are verbose to put it mildly, but I'm looking forward to giving the recordings a try! :)
A nice collection of Pfitzner. I am sure your alcohol-induced purchase will yield great rewards.
It's a dangerous pastime, making purchases when not quite 100% sober. There was once a truly magnificent secondhand CD shop in central London which basked in the name Cheapo Cheapo Records (any fellow Brits remember it - in Rupert Street in the shadow of the Raymond Revue Bar?). I once made the mistake of going in there with a friend (it's always worse with a friend!) after a few beers in Soho (Cheapo Cheapo stayed open late - I'm sure to catch-out silly people like me). I went a little crazy and bought FAR more CDs than I should or could really afford. I still have all of them, so i must have considered them good purchases in the cold light of day.
I've often thought that Pfitzner was probably a better pedagog than composer. He spawned a long list of distinguished conductors, including Munch, Klemperer, Rangstrom, Marek and Jacoby.
I first heard music by him while traveling, driving a long boring stretch of interstate highway. His piano concerto was being played on the radio, and I liked it well enough to track down a box of the orchestral works. I agree that his cello concertos are better than most other orchestral pieces. His opera Palestrina and some of his songs are better, I think, than any of his orchestral works.
I don't listen to his music very often, but I'm glad to have the box and do pull out a CD occasionally.
The box is well worth having, although I don't think there's masterpiece in it.
Thanks, gentlemen, for saving me money. I too was tempted by that offer and was going to ask the Forum whether his music was worth getting, bearing in mind my limited finances as an old age pensioner. Now I know the answer and can devote my resources to someone I already enjoy, such as Ferdinand Ries. :)
Inclined to put in a dissenting view if your reaction is quite -that- - especially since this contributor does tend toward regarding the violin concerto and at least one of the cello concertos as probably a masterpiece - (though the other Pfitzner works that especially seem that way to me- by the strictest standard- that I've heard so far are chamber works; only one of them would show up in that particular album, a symphony that's an arrangement for orchestra of a string quartet, and I'm not sure I've heard that particular one of the string quartets yet, though it looks very interesting and tempting in score).
Eric
There's an awful lot of indigestible Pfitzner to wade through in the cpo box, though...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 26 February 2011, 00:00
The box is well worth having, although I don't think there's masterpiece in it.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 28 February 2011, 16:37
There's an awful lot of indigestible Pfitzner to wade through in the cpo box, though...
Luckily, masterpieces (which is a label that I'm increasingly reluctant to use and one which has never influenced my listening) are in the eye of the beholder and I'm blessed with a strong stomach! The composer who could pen
Palestrina is surely not all bad. ;)
Anyway, until the Pfitzner arrives I'm contenting myself with another recent impulse buy - the four-disc set of Stenhammar on Bis, which is wonderful! ;D
The things you do when drunk. I remember buying a huge chest level 1920's HMV gramophone I had been admiring in a window. A bit like the one Elgar can be seen standing next to,but without straight legs! I've still got it and it weighs a ton & has an early & rather clever auto start/stop mechanism. It's a beauty & very high tech!!!!
(Ahem! I'm afraid this is rather off topic!)
Having just bought cpo's release Humperdinck's 'Dornroschen' opera from Presto,after reading a not too enthusiastic review by Andrew Clements,(The Grauniad), I wonder if anyone has an opinion on Pfitzner' 'Christmas Fairy Tale opera', 'Das Christelfein'?
I have often wondered about that cpo box.......
Pfitzner may not have been a great composer of the highest rank, but in that CPO series is one disk that I totally enjoy, and listen to regularly: the two symphonies op 44 and 46. They're delightful, tuneful, enjoyable little works. And his choral work, Das dunkle Reich has given me a lot of pleasure over the years.
Quote from: mbhaub on Tuesday 01 March 2011, 04:41
Pfitzner may not have been a great composer of the highest rank, but in that CPO series is one disk that I totally enjoy, and listen to regularly: the two symphonies op 44 and 46. They're delightful, tuneful, enjoyable little works. And his choral work, Das dunkle Reich has given me a lot of pleasure over the years.
I think one of those two is the string quartet arrangement I spoke of (the string quartet in C-sharp minor, turned into a symphony- ah, no, my mistake, that's op.36a...); the other's his symphony in C (and that I have heard and enjoy - at the risk of seeming to damn with faint praise, which I don't mean to, some really well-turned and memorable phrases there...) (then there's op.46 "Kleine Sinfonie in G" which I haven't heard yet :) )
Eric
Pfitzner clearly doesn't always get such a good press (I must admit that some, but definitely not all, of the works in the CPO box of orchestral music have left me somewhat non-plussed).
However, the recent CPO disc of orchestral songs
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/cpo7775522.jpg)
is a revelation - this was clearly Pfitzner's metier: fabulous word-painting, superb and imaginative orchestration and melody! ;D
I agree, the latest cpo Pfitzner CD is an absolutely first-rate release. Wonderfully sung and played too.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 22 March 2011, 21:02
I agree, the latest cpo Pfitzner CD is an absolutely first-rate release. Wonderfully sung and played too.
Seconded!!!!!!!!!!!! This album is just plain terrific.
I have a Hyperion CD of three Pfitzner cello concertos (two in A minor, one in G), and the duo for violin, cello and orchestra by the Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester Berlin cond. S. Weigle. I must have bought it having heard one of the works on the radio so will listen to it again. It will make a change from Draeseke, Grimm and Dietrich!
... and be more tedious than any of them, I'll be bound. Good luck!
Agreed! Draeseke, Grimm and Dietrich composed some of the most interesting, not to say important unknown symphonies of the nineteenth century.
Pfitzner's greatest work is probably his opera 'Palestrina', but that really takes some listening to. Kubelik's recording is very fine - and very well cast. Some of it may remind you of the more 'conversational' passages of Die Meistersinger, other parts of Richard Strauss. Overall, though, it's rather an austere listen, but I'm persuaded that it's worth persevering with - if serious late romantic opera in the German tradition is your 'thing', that is. As I suggested, the Kubelik recording has a fabulous cast - Gedda, Ridderbusch, Fischer-Dieskau, Weikl, Prey, Donath, Fassbaender. Unlike so many obscure operas released these days, this was cast from strength. That's how they did things 50 years ago (it was released in 1973!)
FWIW I believe that 'Palestrina' contains some very great music indeed. But this is a personal opinion which I'm sure not everyone will share. Orchestrally, the Prelude to Act 2 is quite a piece. It comes at the listener almost like a medieval battering-ram. I can't think of anything quite like it in all music.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 29 September 2023, 17:03Agreed! Draeseke, Grimm and Dietrich composed some of the most interesting, not to say important unknown symphonies of the nineteenth century.
Yes I agree too. Discovering them this year has been quite a revelation (and I'm 76). I was just meaning that Pfitzner would be different!
He's certainly that. He's uneven, but when he's good, he's sublime. And what makes Kubelik's Palestrina so inspiring is precisely that roster of star soloists. It's an opera which, with so many roles to cast, would be a pain to listen to if recorded, like so many operas today, at some provincial theatre with a decent orchestra but zero singers capable of caressing the ear.
In my opinion, Pfitzner's gretaest and most inspired work is his cantata "Von deutscher Seele" - on poems by Eichendorff. The best recording forever is the 1966 DDG album conducted by Joseph Keilberth, featuring singers like Agnes Giebel, Hertha Töpper, Fritz Wunderlich and Otto Wiener. One of my "desert island" items!
That's an important reminder. Fancy having the great Fritz Wunderlich in that work!
That's a wonderful recording; re-released not too long ago together with Othmar Schoeck's appropriately gloomy Lebendig begraben (in the Fischer-Dieskau / Rieger recording).
It's a reminder that all music benefits enormously from top-flight performers, especially if it isn't well known. I just can't imagine Palestrina sung by a string of provincial soloists: there's pleasure in hearing such great singers performing Pfitzner's opera and having such a distinguished conductor (Kubelik) at the helm.
When it comes to public performances of the cello concertos, or indeed any concerto by one of the unsung composers we are discussing, we are faced with finding soloists who have them in their repertoire. An aspiring cellist would aim to learn some or all of the following - the Haydn concertos and those by Schumann, Saint-Saens, Dvorak, Elgar and Shostakovich, plus the Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations and Brahms Double Concerto. That's already a large repertoire so Pfitzner unlikely.
Well, the reality is that many recordings - especially those made by/alongside broadcasters - are virtually one-off events which preserve performances of unsung music that are never repeated. This was the case with Rufinatscha's last Symphony made in conjunction with the BBC in Manchester when the broadcast performance was followed by the Chandos recording. As far as I know Gianandrea Noseda has never conducted the work again.
It's asking a lot to expect any musician to learn a work purely for a recording and then never to perform it again - but that's usually the reality as far as getting neglected music recorded is concerned. It's an uphill battle...
For me Pfitzner is a bit like Thomas Mann; dense, oppressive, but ultimately rewarding. I return to his chamber works more than his orchestral pieces - especially the piano quintet. I do enjoy the symphonies, though.
Quote from: kolaboy on Saturday 30 September 2023, 19:55For me Pfitzner is a bit like Thomas Mann; dense, oppressive, but ultimately rewarding.
Regarding Thomas Mann, I certainly concur with the first two qualifiers, at least in translation, but for Pfitzner all three apply. He is, as Alan says, uneven, but when he's on his game he's remarkable. The prelude to Act I of "Palestrina", along with the chorus of angels in the final scene of that act, are sublimely beautiful. The Violin Sonata is a masterpiece (at least for me), and the Violin Concerto highly original. What other composer would write a concerto slow movement where the soloist plays not a single note? There are other examples, like the aforementioned quintet, and the Piano Concerto.
Yes, he's definitely worth the effort.
'Von deutscher Seele' belongs, I think, in the broad same category as Schoenberg's 'Gurrelieder', Elgar's three great oratorios, Delius' 'A Mass of Life', Franz Schmidt's 'Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln' and, I'm tempted to add, in some respects Havergal Brian's 'Gothic Symphony' and Mahler's 8th, i.e. large-scale late/post-romantic choral-orchestral works. You'll also find parallels with later Strauss operas, especially in some of the more ecstatic vocal writing for the soprano, beautifully sung by Agnes Giebel in the classic Keilberth recording. I would say, however, that it's probably a more difficult listen than any of the above-mentioned works, with the exception of the Brian.
For further information on the work, please follow this link:
https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/prefaces/4606.html
I'd certainly like to experience the work live. Has it ever been performed in the UK, I wonder? Get Martyn Brabbins to conduct it and hire the Royal Albert Hall...