Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: 4candles on Wednesday 04 September 2024, 14:40

Title: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: 4candles on Wednesday 04 September 2024, 14:40
Another important recording forthcoming from Toccata (not yet on their Pipeline, but imminent), including:


4c
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 September 2024, 17:28
Thanks for the heads-up.

We will need to know more about the style of Symphony No.2, though - it dates from 1942. Please refer to this earlier thread:
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,9155.msg93518.html#msg93518
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 04 September 2024, 23:30
2-piano reduction at imslp should provide some info for scorereaders; I know of no recordings otherwise.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 September 2024, 23:34
I hope it'll be acceptable - just doing my job 'policing' our remit.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: 4candles on Thursday 05 September 2024, 10:13
And a superb job you do, too, Alan!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Reverie on Thursday 05 September 2024, 21:43
Very interested in this  -  I had a go at orchestrating parts of the 2nd symphony from the 2 piano reduction but it proved to involve too much guesswork basically. I wonder where the score came from? The college told me there was no score!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 06 September 2024, 03:58
Did they mean no score, or no score and no parts? (Unfortunately the St Michael's College link showing the College's holdings of his music- the finding aid- seems to be down- maybe it's moved at their site...) Ah, it's moved here (https://archon-smclibrary.libraryhost.com/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=253&q=stoehr).
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 06 September 2024, 04:13
hrm. sym.2 is mentioned twice: box 5 folder 10 has the 2-piano reduction, box 9 folder 1 has the "bound score". Unless these are just the same thing, or the score is missing, I presume the full score is the one in box 9, but since they can't find it, that doesn't bode well (I mean, I'd prefer they used a symphony that existed in full rather than one that needed to be reconstructed). Is Martin Anderson reading this and able presumably to shed some light...
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 17 September 2024, 22:16
Excerpts are now available here:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9666593--richard-stohr-orchestral-music-vol-3

I don't think there's any problem with the idiom of the composer's later music!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 00:34
Wasn't expecting there to be but glad to have that confirmed (well, ok, yes, I wouldn't mind but you know what I mean!)
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 19:41
Regarding stylistic suitability for this forum, I don't think we need to worry. The 2nd orchestral suite from 1947 is as lusciously romantic as his earlier work.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 20:18
Looks as though you're right. Wonder whether his style changed much at all - there are six symphonies written between 1942 (No.2) and 1951 (No.7).
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Reverie on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 20:54
Love those excerpts from the symphony - thank you. Looking forward to November 1st. Stöhr's music hits the spot for me every time!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 21:20
It's very attractive music, I agree.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 18 September 2024, 21:40
Seconded.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 20 October 2024, 21:44
A vital piece of evidence about the Symphony:
<<Like so many important Austrian musicians forced into American exile by the Nazis, Richard Stöhr (1874-1967) suddenly found himself cast from celebrity into obscurity, The optimism and energy, even defiance, of these three works from 1942 suggest that he took it on the chin, with his musical language retaining its Viennese accent in an individual amalgam of Bruckner, Mahler, Schmidt and Korngold. Indeed, the echoes of Mahler in Stöhr's Second Symphony may be a deliberate homage if, as seems possible, this 1942 version is a revision of a now-lost work first composed shortly after Mahler's death.>> (my emphasis)
https://toccataclassics.com/product/richard-stohr-orchestral-music-volume-three/
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 20 October 2024, 21:47
or even if it was just a continuation of a work begun then (not a "never-happens"- think on Medtner's piano quintet (1904-48) as an example of that (first movement finished 1904, work finished 1948, in that case.))
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Ilja on Monday 21 October 2024, 09:13
From the excerpts it struck me how the opening of the first movement sounded like a continuation of sorts of the first symphony, but the opening of the last two movements came much closer to his later works.

I obviously purchased this recording immediately, but I'll have to exercise patience for another ten days before being able to download. Sheer torture.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 03 November 2024, 14:58
The torture is over!

The first movement of Symphony No.2 is very much an homage to Mahler, but much leaner and more concise than the music of the great man. It's as if Mahler's sound-world is being recollected in a sort-of haunted tranquility. And so the music continues, with unease never far away until the third movement gigue marked Vivace changes the mood into one of cheerful abandon. The finale returns to the theme of the opening, with a certain unease threatening to darken the overall tone as the symphony rushes to a close.

A fascinating work - one to which I shall return with real interest. Kudos to Martin Anderson for daring to record it.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Ilja on Sunday 03 November 2024, 19:51
I downloaded the recording Stöhr symphony No. 2 and the two orchestral pieces at the earliest opportunity, and it is quite a different experience from its predecessors. The Second Symphony is much more of a slow burner, so to speak, than the First. Alan has rightly identified the first movement as a hommage to Mahler, or perhaps rather Mahler's Vienna.

The booklet notes that:

QuoteWalter Niemann classified the composer as one of three 'ostensible modernists', who included Hugo Kaun, Paul Juon "and the Viennese Richard Stöhr; composers who today swing back and forth between Classical, Romantic and Neo-Romantic forms and ideas, between Berlioz, Wagner, Liszt and Richard Strauss, who – a characteristic sign of our time of transition! – write chamber music and symphonies in classical forms as well as programmatic symphonic poems, double fugues as well as impressionistic poems of mood, bowing today to the goddess of the classically beautiful, tomorrow to the goddess of the modern [...]".

The comparison to Juon is apt, I think (I regrettably don't know enough of Kaun's later works to make that judgment). There are impressionist influences as well as from German contemporaries, and at times Stöhr veers in a direction akin to Les Six (think Honegger and Auric rather than Milhaud). However, underneath it all is still the same turn-of-the-century Viennese harmonic language from his earlier works. It is certainly a more adventurous work than others from the same period such as the Piano Concerto Im alten Stil or the Suite for piano, violin and cello.

Another parallel that sprang to mind is Woyrsch. Both of them display a similar gradual condensation of classical romantic musical language after the First World War. In Woyrsch, that ends in ever more compact pieces, but while Stöhr's he works retain a healthy length, he finds a similar reduction in resorting to smaller ensemble and shorter, alternating melodic arches. In doing so, he becomes something of an anti-Bruckner, but the music also sounds almost cinematic to modern ears.

Quotea composer, an honest, unsophisticated talent; the energy of his gift is of a distinctly muscular character, of an austere chastity which is nevertheless always surrounded by a pleasant, subduing grace, an almost mischievous kindness

I can't say I agree with that judgment at all; Stöhr has shown himself to be a very refined composer, and not that  that muscular at all; listen to the first suite, for instance. By 1942, not a lot of that asserted muscularity is left anyhow. Stöhr's music has become more thoughtful and elegiac, but with prickly elements here and there that show his knowledge of contemporary musical developments.

In the end, I adore both symphonies, albeit for entirely different reasons, and I am elated that both were recorded. It does make me curious about the other ones, and I hope the series is continued.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 November 2024, 02:49
Listening to this symphony now and at least so far, strikingly good. Thanks for the recommendation.
Edit: one of the most un-Bruckner-like things about the finale, besides the spareness that reminded me more of Robert Herrmann's 2nd , Stenhammar Gm, or Wetz 1 (or Elgar/Payne 3...) than Bruckner, was the very unBrucknerian ending. (The number of multi movement Bruckner works I know of that end without at least a Picardy 3rd I can count on the thumb of one hand.)
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Reverie on Monday 04 November 2024, 07:49
Well, that was worth waiting for! The strong melodic lines are there and the clear uncomlicated textures hold true. On a first hearing the 3rd mov comes out strongest for me. That scherzo-like hoe down leading effortlessly into a sumptuous middle section. And talking of endings if this ever gets to a concert hall the last few bars of the finale will catch the audience out every time.

Roll on number three!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Ilja on Monday 04 November 2024, 08:19
Agree with all of that, most of all the clarity of the writing. This can also be witnessed in the other two pieces in the recording, the Per Aspera ad Astra overture and the Two Roads to Victory (Through Arms — Through Love) symphonic poem. To me, the first sounds like a modern science-fiction film score in some places, whereas the second brings definite silent era German cinema vibes (e.g., Caligari). The small ensemble also lends both pieces a certain frailty (particularly Two Roads to Victory) which suits them very well. Exquisite stuff.

By the way, the booklet is also excellent, and was a refreshing change from the gobbledegook that peppered the Büttner booklet.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 November 2024, 11:39
The booklet is indeed excellent, both on Stöhr himself and the music involved here.

I think Ilja hits the nail on the head by stressing the composer's Viennese heritage. The Symphony is about a time and a culture that, from the perspective of 1942, no longer existed - except, perhaps, in the film composers of Hollywood. By this time, of course, Stöhr himself had emigrated to the USA.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 November 2024, 14:14
Do you mean the Büttner CD from Sterling, ages ago? I'm confused. Or does the new Büttner 2 recording on cpo come with a downloadable booklet? (I hadn't seen anyone mention that.)
(If this is in the context of Toccata Classics I'm guessing Bittner is meant, a different kettle of lunch.)
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 November 2024, 15:00
This is about Stöhr, not Büttner, Eric. Not to worry...
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 November 2024, 18:37
Oh. I thought "a refreshing change from the gobbledegook that peppered the Büttner booklet." was a little confusing, but.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 04 November 2024, 19:13
So it is, Eric. Your query is very pertinent. And I'm confused too. Which recording of the Buttner did you mean, Ilja?
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Ilja on Monday 04 November 2024, 19:55
Sorry if I was being unclear - I was referring to the booklet that accompanied the recent Büttner 2nd Symphony recording. Which for some reason mingles rather strange value assessments with lists of composers and conductors. 
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 04 November 2024, 20:35
Ah, yes. Thank you. This sort of thing sometimes happens with CPO booklets.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 November 2024, 22:03
It sure does. Lessons need to be learned from the Toccata equivalents.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 05 November 2024, 10:01
But somehow I doubt they will be!
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 05 November 2024, 10:43
Not a chance, no.
Title: Re: Richard Stöhr Symphony No.2/etc. (Toccata)
Post by: John Boyer on Friday 08 November 2024, 16:27
This is a real winner.  And the shade of Mahler only adds to the enjoyment.