Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Pengelli on Monday 07 March 2011, 14:41

Title: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Monday 07 March 2011, 14:41
Schreker's 'Der Ferne Klang' with the American Symphony Orchestra conducted by Botstein,is available as a download from Amazon on March 21st. Does anyone here have any views about this performance? I know there's a Schreker buff on the board somewhere.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Monday 07 March 2011, 15:15
Thanks for this - hadn't spotted it at all! I think that the performances (at least from the musical standpoint) attracted extremely favourable reviews so I'll probably be investigating it at some point.

Incidentally, Botstein and the American Symphony Orchestra have done some fabulously unsung works and made them available as downloads. I'm very tempted by the Marx Herbstsymphonie (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marx-Eine-Herbstsymphonie/dp/B003XNCZFY/ref=sr_1_86?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1299510420&sr=1-86 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marx-Eine-Herbstsymphonie/dp/B003XNCZFY/ref=sr_1_86?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1299510420&sr=1-86)) - has anybody heard this yet?

£7.49 seems very reasonable for this colossal work, but I'm not going to pay the same for Raff's The Tempest or The Four Temperaments Waltz by Johann Strauss I - can anybody explain the strange and quite random pricing of the ASO downloads on Amazon and suggest an alternative site where these shorter items are more sensibly priced?  ???
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 07 March 2011, 15:27
I believe that they're all available from eMusic, where you get a fixed number of downloads for a monthly fee. That would work out a lot cheaper if you're a member (I'm not because I don't like the commitment).
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Monday 07 March 2011, 15:42
Thanks, Mark - I don't like subscription sites very much either and anyway I only buy downloads where there is no other alternative. Have you heard the ASO performance of the Marx? I also notice that they have Hausegger's Wieland der Schmied (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hausegger-Wieland-Der-Schmied/dp/B003U23WA0/ref=sr_shvl_album_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1299512455&sr=301-2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hausegger-Wieland-Der-Schmied/dp/B003U23WA0/ref=sr_shvl_album_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1299512455&sr=301-2)) - although again £7.49 for an 18-minute piece!  :o
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: alberto on Monday 07 March 2011, 16:13
I am satisfied with another recording of "Der Ferne Klang" by another infaticable champion of the unsung, Gerd Albrecht
(Capriccio 60024-2). That was released in 1991; I could find and buy it six or five years ago. By the way does anyone like to write about the actual presence of Schreker in the concert hall? In 45 years I heard and saw three performances of "Prelude to a Great Drama" (an extended version of the prelude to "Die Gezeneichten", one of the youthful "Romantic Suite" and one of "Nachtstucke" (an extended version of an interlude from "Der Ferne Klang"). Two performances, between five, in the last three years: in small figures, an improvement for Schreker.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Monday 07 March 2011, 16:26
Unfortunately he's still little-played in the concert-hall, but recent years have seen an upswing in Schreker's fortunes at least in European opera houses, with Irrelohe coming to Bonn next month (http://www.theater-bonn.de/production.asp?ShowtimeID=979 (http://www.theater-bonn.de/production.asp?ShowtimeID=979)).

Particularly important in terms of broadening the repertoire was the 2010 Chemnitz production of Der Schmied von Gent - it was recorded by CPO as part of their ongoing Schreker series - I've got an off-air recording of this highly enjoyable performance, but when will CPO give it a commercially release?  ::)
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Monday 07 March 2011, 16:27
I'm thinking of splasing out on the DVD of 'Die Gezeichneten' before it gets deleted & I find myself at the mercy of Amazon sellers. I KNOW I want it!!!!
   Thanks for the info about the Botstein, Marx 'Herbstsymphonie'. I didn't spot THAT one!
Wish they'd release a version of 'Der Schatzgraber' without Gabriele blinking Schnaut! Why do Opera companies give parts to singers with voices like that? Ouch,my ears!!!!
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Monday 07 March 2011, 18:52
Giving in to temptation (how uncharacteristic  ::)), I've just downloaded, burned and listened to the ASO/ Botstein performance of Marx's complete Herbstsymphonie - wunderbar!

With the beginning of the first movement clearly influenced by Schreker's celeste and harp-laden opening to the Vorspiel zu einem Drama, the symphony proceeds on it's colourful course with ne'er a dull moment. The performance is excellent with very little 'audience participation' and I can strongly recommend it!  ;D
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Monday 07 March 2011, 20:33
This work has a legendary status that bears a striking resemblance to a certain other work of statuesque proportions,shall we say. But maybe not the notoriety or the cult following. At any rate,this will be VERY HARD TO RESIST!
I wonder other wonders Botstein has in store for us?
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 07 March 2011, 21:02
I still hope for Hiller's "The Fall of Jerusalem".
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 07 March 2011, 21:45
Was a little confusing when I ran into a score of Klughardt's Zerstörung..., but I guess the text on which it was based was popular. ..erm. Anyway.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 07 March 2011, 22:18
Off-topic, but mentioned in this thread: you can buy a superlative download of Marx's Herbstsymphonie here...
http://www.micmacmusic.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=marx&x=11&y=10 (http://www.micmacmusic.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=marx&x=11&y=10)
The performance was given by the Grosses Orchester Graz under Michel Swierczewski in October 2005. The sound is excellent and the performance quite wonderful.

BTW either Botstein makes some cuts or his temp are very fast: his TT is 58:52, whereas Swierczewski takes 73:33!!!!! Caveat emptor, maybe?
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 06:54
Thanks for this link, Alan - never come across MicMacMusic before!

Yes, 58 versus 73 minutes is quite a difference and for the cost of 3 Euros I'll certainly have to give the Graz recording a try, but (whether there are cuts in the score or not) I have to say that the ASO performance is highly enjoyable in every respect.  :)
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 08:03
Thanks to Alan's link, I've just downloaded and burned the Graz performance for the cost of £2.66! From being a legendary work languishing in dusty obscurity, the Herbstsymphonie is in danger of becoming hackneyed!  ;)
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 11:37
Sounds like Mick McManus,I mean,MicMacMusic won that bout!
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 15:18
Talking of Mick McManus, when as a youngster I heard commentator Kent Walton talk of a forearm smash, I imagined a 'four-arm smash'. No wonder it used to hurt...

Anyway, well done to MicMacMusic!!
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 17:23
I've just got home from work and listened to the Graz performance of the Herbstsymphonie - all I can say is that on the strength of it I've ordered a copy of the deleted ASV recording of Marx's Nature Trilogy!

Unfortunately this now makes the prospective purchase of the CPO Marx disc somewhat redundant, so (since Nature abhors a vacuum) I'm tempted to fill the gap with ...

...       (http://i.prs.to/t_200/cpo7773852.jpg), (http://i.prs.to/t_200/cpo7773252.jpg)  or possibly (http://i.prs.to/t_200/cpo7771072.jpg)    as part of the final splurge before the Presto offer ends. Does anybody have strong opinions for or against any of these discs?   :)

Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 18:09
Depends on whether you're a serious listener with fine tastes. If so, then the answer is: all three!

If it is the choice between CPO and real poverty, I'd probably peel off Zandonai. It is a fine work, real lyricism and real drama, but I doubt if in years to come you'll be expiring on your death bed proclaiming that you've suffered a wretched life because you've never heard the Zandonai concerto.

My middle one on the list is Bruch. Some very skilfully orchestrated workings of various folk tunes, and a very great pleasure. And besides everyone should root for Bruch because he has less representation than he should do.

And first choice of the trio - Berg. I found it a fine and interesting symphony - and, apart from CPO, otherwise unsung. Besides if you acquire it then you'll have very good reason for acquiring the other Berg symphonies on CPO. And the latter will be better off - which is a good thing!
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 19:01
Peter, I'm liking you're thinking! Many thanks for taking the trouble to outline the merits of these discs. The only Zandonai I know is Francesca da Rimini, which I think is superb, so I'll probably have to have the Violin Concerto.

What I have heard of Bruch I really enjoy as well, and am intrigued by the thought of his 'lighter' output. So that's in as well.

The Berg - well, I'm a sucker for attractive paintings of ships in full sail so that's more or less decided then!  ;D

Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: alberto on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 19:05
I own and know the Bruch and the Zandonai.
The Bruch is agreable and fairly light, not the best Bruch.
The Zandonai has been to me very interesting, the only possibility to listen symphonic works by a mostly operatic composer (whose Francesca da Rimini is still performed and even recorded).
The Zandonai Concerto of 1919 is not on the level of the Concertos of contemporaries composers Respighi (C.Gregoriano, released by Chandos, MP and Decca, at least), Pizzetti (released by Italian label Bongiovanni)  and Wolf-Ferrari (released by CPO); nor is on the level of the violin Concertos of Casella and Malipiero (again contemporary composers, adopting a more advanced language: there is a good Supraphon recording).
More intersting is to me the suite "Segantini Pictures".
I will buy myself the Berg, knowing (and liking) by him only Symphony n.4 (Phono Suecia).
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: TerraEpon on Tuesday 08 March 2011, 20:58
I love the Bruch disc -- if you like orchestral dances at all you WILL enjoy it.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 09 March 2011, 00:14
Wait a minute,have I missed something.....again? Are cpo recording, or have they recorded Marx's 'Herbstsymphonie'? There is something on the Marx website which seems to suggest that they are interested. I hope so. It's a bit late,or should I say early,to have much of a google around.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: X. Trapnel on Thursday 10 March 2011, 17:13
I heard Botstein do the Autumn Symphony live and was overwhelmed (the NY Times reviewer was characteristically and witlessly dismissive, nattering on abt how he had to work out at  the gym with Webern on his ipod to recover). The recording is fine. All that remains is the Nordland Rhapsody and Marx will be covered. I'm hoping Botstein's performance of Shcherbachev's 2nd Symphony (a choral work, settings of the great Russian poet Aleksandr Blok) will be made available.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: albion on Thursday 10 March 2011, 17:32
Marx (and many others) would be better covered if somebody could take a grip on the deleted ASV catalogue!  >:(

I also came across the NYT review of Botstein's clearly-magical (judging from the recording) Herbstsymphonie concert - and marvelled at the ingratitude and obtuseness of the reviewer - how do these people gain such influential positions from which to display their ignorance?  ???
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: X. Trapnel on Thursday 10 March 2011, 18:21
Albion,

For as long as I can recall NY Times music critic is unable to deal with anything that can't be located within the narrow grid coordinates of haute-yuppie taste mainstream rep and pop trendy/institutional "avant garde." Their unstated reasoning (in this case) is, more or less, since we have (or have to put up with) Mahler and Strauss why do we need any more German/Austrian late romaniticsm; it will only complicate things.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: X. Trapnel on Thursday 10 March 2011, 18:24
I should add that NY performances of the Asrael Symphony and the Book of the Seven Seals about 10 years ago got the same treatment.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 10 March 2011, 22:44
I have come to the conclusion, after many years, that, with very few exceptions, music critics (of the journalist variety) are a complete waste of space; they serve no useful purpose whatsoever and are parasites on the concert promoter because they demand complimentary seats. I would cheerfully load most of them into a meat grinder and convert them to cat food. Put another way, they take up space that could more usefully be filled by AIR.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 11 March 2011, 10:04
Mr.(?) Trapnel, you recall a lot more tolerance on the part of NY Times music critics than I do for that avant garde. (Donal Henahan in the 2nd half of his career and Winthrop Sargeant (New Yorker, not New York Times, now I look into it - sorry) seemed withering in their prejudiced attitude not just against the avant garde in music, but just against things fairly modern; the latter called Roger Sessions' 8th symphony, I think (can't seem to find the reference but I think it was in the New Yorker in 1971?) a "pallbearer at music's funeral".)  But the New York Times has never, in my experience, been a place to go for good music criticism. Fanfare magazine in its heyday (no longer, it seems) had some fairly good examples, by my lights, but there were better still. MusicWeb International online is really not half bad.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: dafrieze on Friday 11 March 2011, 14:27
Having spent quite a number of years, for my sins, as a theater critic in Boston, I can assure you that there are good critics.  They're the ones who agree with you.  And they can turn bad overnight.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 11 March 2011, 17:26
I always felt a certain sympathy for Vincent Price's character bumping off his critics one by one in that old horror film 'Theatre of Blood',using Shakespeare as his inspiration,extracting a pound of flesh and generally giving the poor sods a miserable & distinctly over the top demise. (It's only worth watching for Price though!)
  I have to disagree with you,'dafrieze'. It's not that I expect them all to agree with me. I quite enjoy reading David Hurwitz's reviews for example. Even though he's often extremely annoying,he does have an interesting & eccentric slant on things,he doesn't just follow the herd as so many critics,particularly the one's who write for newspapers,do. Art critics included.
Title: Re: Schreker der Ferne Klang Botstein
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 11 March 2011, 17:30
Talking of meat grinders,you sound like you've been watching 'Theatre of Blood' too,Gareth!!!