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Reading about Novak on the forum prompted me to buy a cd of his music.  Going by Wikipedia's assessment, I chose a recording of Pan, reputedly his most famous work??? I liked the sound of what I read and also listened to on the net and I have to say I have not been disappointed. Already a devotee of both Debussy and Ravel, it is not surprising that Novak's music appeals strongly to me! I plan to explore his music further but regrettably,he has to take his place on my rather long wish list of cds to buy!!!

I have now had time to listen to both the VC and the Odysseus Symphony a number of times and have come to really appreciate both works. I particularly like the VC, especially the first movement. As Alan said so aptly, it's a work which is similar in style to his sunny 2nd symphony. The Odysseus Symphony is also very impressive with its already stated, obvious Lisztian/ Wagnerian overtones. I like it a lot but it is quite different in style from his symphonies nos 1 and 2 both of which I am quite fond.
cheers
Dennis

Reading the comments on Taneyev on the forum prompted me to get out my 2 cds of his symphonies nos 1-4, purchased quite some time ago! At the time, I was left a little unmoved by his music, in spite of loving all Russian music! Listening again now made me realise that I had somewhat underestimated Taneyev's music! His music has more going for it than I first realised and symphony no 4 is indeed a marvelous work in the grand Russian tradition"! A salutory lesson to be learned here - don't judge a piece of music too quickly!

Having read the comments on the forum and listened a number of times to sound bites on the internet, I too am very taken with Gaubert's music and I have consequently ordered the cd as well.

I wonder if any other members of the forum are familiar with the music of Fikret Amirov. Apparently he is very well known in his homeland of Azerbaijan, but I suspect that he is far less well known elsewhere. I recently came across his music, whilst exploring my love of Russian music. Listening to sound bites of his works on the internet, convinced me that I really liked his music. Not only is it Russian in  flavour, but it also has strong  Arabian overtones as well. I freely acknowledge my love of all Russian music but equally, I have a pronounced predeliction for the exotic, the oriental, a touch of the Middle East in my music as well. Amirov's music fits me like a glove. Exploring his works further, I discovered that he is famous, musically speaking, for the creation of the symphonic "mugam" : a symphonic folk rhapsody. As an Azerbaijani, Amirov frequently incorporates elements of Azerbaijan folk music into his works. Naxos have just released a cd of his most famous works : Shur, Kyurdi Ovshari, Gyulistan Bayati Shiras and Azerbaijan Capriccio. I have listened to the cd a number of times now and the music continues to grow on me, delicate and lyrical, not too heavy handed on the oriental, just enough to give it a quite distinctive flavour. At times, I am a little reminded of Borodin's Polovtsian Dances. There is also a wonderful ballet score, "Arabian Nights" which gives an unmistakable guide to its character - not an easy cd to acquire by the way! At present, I also have on order another Naxos cd "Caucasian Impressions", which contains amongst other tracks, Amirov's Symphony for String Orchestra. If therefore, you like Russian music with a dash of Arabia, I strongly recommend Amirov's music. Is anyone else familiar with his music?
cheers
Dennis

Hi Amphissa

Just a quick post to say that I echo your take on what constitutes a monumental symphony. I think you have put it very aptly. What caught my eye even more though, was your comment on Russian composers. I love a huge number of composers, including the great German/Austrian ones, but I have a particular empathy with all things Russian! I have a substantial collection of works by both sung and unsung Russian composers and would not be without them! You might have noticed that I have opened a number of threads on this forum re-Russian composers such as Khrennikov and Popov for example.

Reverting to the theme of this particular thread however, I would like to suggest a non-Russian monumental symphony and that is Bruckner's 8th symphony. At the last count, I had 8 different versions of the symphony and the Adagio in particular moves me deeply every time I listen to it!

cheers
Dennis

Hi Alan

I agree precisely with your latest comments, which made me smile! As one German teacher to another (albeit retired ) German teacher, I am constantly telling my pupils, when doing coursework, to always substantiate opinions with reasons i.e. "ich mag ..... "(I like....) or "ich finde ..... gut" (I think that ...... is good"), "WEIL...." (BECAUSE......),  hence the reason for my smile reading your post.

cheers
Dennis

Hi all
I have noticed just how often the two views "objectivity" and "subjectivity" appear in threads on this forum. Quite often,  I get the feeling it is held that the two views are somehow quite separate, that they exist independantly from each other. To my mind, they are but two sides of the same coin. Listening to any given piece of music, the immediate response is whether you like the piece or not. In many cases, the response is positive, whereas for others the response may be quite different. This then, is the subjective view and as individuals, we each have the right to either like or dislike a piece, irrespective of what we are told. And if we are listening merely for enjoyment, I feel a purely subjective view is totally justified. There are those though, who suggest that being "subjective" is not enough, that in order to recognise, indeed truly appreciate great music, we must be "objective", i.e. that somehow a totally different skill is being called upon!

In my opinion, listening to music is both subjective AND objective and every listener does in fact exercise objectivity. Obviously the immediate reponse is either"I like it" or "I don't like it" (sometimes though "I'm not sure" can equally apply). But consider for example, when the response say is negative. If you were asked to say why you didn't like it and had to give reasons, you would most probably come up with "poor melodies, weak playing, strange tempos, badly recorded et al". But would you not also compare the piece with other works from the same composer or indeed, on a larger scale, compare the work in question with music from other composers? In other words, you either consciously or, more frequently, subconsciously, break down your unfavourable response to what you have listened to. Perhaps, as a non-musicologist like myself, you don't critically analyse the music technically in purely musical terms but nevertheless, we all have the ability to contrast and compare pieces of music! This is why I feel that no-one is either solely objective or solely subjective, hence the title of this thread.

Finally, if I were to express the above idea in different terms but still stick to the same premice, I could easily substitute "emotional response" for subjectivity and "intellectual response" for objectivity.

Is this too simplistic a view?

Cheers
Dennis

Hello all

I know he is not "unsung" but as Alan mentioned Gounod, I felt it was ok to say that one of my all time favourite flute concertos is Khachaturian's flute concerto, an absolute stunner (a reworking of his vc in fact)!

cheers
Dennis

Hello Peter

I thought I would quickly update you on my impressions of Klami's vc, which I listened to again yesterday. In a couple of words "I've fallen under its spell"! I think it's a great vc and is firmly up there on my list of favourite vc's! I love everything about it, from the striking orchestral colour of the first movement (especially the interplay between the soloist and the orchestra), the almost achingly tender main theme of the second, to the motor-like Prokofiev rhythms of the third (shades there also of Shostakovich)! I think though that you already know how much I love the piece! I wonder if other members will share our opinion? Re- Tubin, I think his music is terrific and I'm already sorting out my next orders.

cheers
Dennis

Hello Peter

I finally received my cd of Klami's vc yesterday! The wait was worth it! Although I have only listened to it once (but the 3rd movement twice!), you will not be surprised to learn that I am very, very impressed by the work, especially the 3rd movement, with its motor-like Prokofiev rythms - great fun, and the movement is over, it seems, scarcely before it's begun! I am going to listen to it again very carefully this weekend, when I am a bit fresher and can give the piece my total attention! I also bought the "Northern Lights" cd and have listened to it once! Again, I will be listening to it this weekend. I am now already mulling over what Klami cd to buy next! A couple of days again, I received my Tubin cd of the 4th and 7th symphonies. Have since listened to it twice and am very taken with his music. It's quite dramatic and also lyrical (the 4th lives up to its sub-title of "Lyrical", but the word that seems to best describe his music, for me at least, is "powerful"! Even the slow movements move on quite powerfully and there is tremendous energy and drive in his music. Another cd to carefully listen to this weekend! I will next order the cd of the coupling of symphonies Shakespeariana and Tramontana! Finally, I have also ordered  the cd of Nystroem's 3rd symphony and await its arrival with great impatience! Clearly, there are still a number of cds I have to order and yes, I might yet end up on a diet of bread and water!!!! I think I will try NOT to discover any more great Scandinavian composers, at least for the present! Thank you again for all your advice and recommendations! You have been very, very helpful.

Cheers
Dennis

Hi Alan

Just to add my best wishes also for a quick recovery. Hopefully you are now on the mend. I find when I am feeling down, it helps just to listen to favourite pieces of music in general, any music that I really love to listen to!

All the very best
Cheers
Dennis

Hello Peter
sorry I haven't replied sooner but was very busy yesterday doing schoolwork (I teach French and German in High School). Sadly, no sign as yet of my Klami cd of his vc! I grow impatient! So, talking about Nystroem made you listen again yesterday to all your favourite Nystroem pieces. Listening to classical music on a miserable rainy Sunday is my idea of bliss! I have listened again to sound bites of Nystroem but regrettably, there are none of symphony no 3! No matter, I intend to order sym no 3 anyway, together with sym Shakespeariana and sym Tramontana, both of which sound very interesting from what I can tell; my sort of music as you well know! Yes, we do indeed seem to have set up a mini Scandinavian forum but I'm sure that is not the first time that that sort of thing has happened on "Unsungs". It's all part of exploring lesser known music, at least for me. I didn't realise that there were so many Scandinavian composers of real merit out there! Whilst searching on Amazon, I came across Eduard Tubin, an Estonian, who from 1944 onwards lived in Sweden for the rest of his life and there composed amongst other works his symphonies 6-10. It would not surprise me if you say you know his music! I have already ordered sym no 4 (lyrical), coupled with sym no 7, having first of all listened to extracts on Amazon : more music I really like! And I said, this year I would order less cds ..... !!! If you do know his music, what do you think of it. Also, if other members are familiar with Tubin, I would welcome their views as well.

Cheers
Dennis

Hi Peter

Re- Klami, Opus 41 is indeed the cd that I have, i.e. pc number 2. Please note that the cd is readily available on both Amazon and JPC (Finlandia Records) and is reasonably priced. Thanks for replying to my previous post. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I get a positive reply to my email to infoarts.fi. They came back to me earlier today"out of office - back Monday"! Re - Nystroem, like the other composers you mentioned, I don't know him either but I have listened to sound bites on Amazon - symphonies 4 and 6, and symphonies 1 and 5. the other symphonies are listed but no sound bites. Seems symphony no 3 is perhaps his finest work?? symphonie del Mare. Also high praise given to the concertante work for cello (was compared to Prokofiev's cello work which I love!!). I listened to sound bites of this work as well but it was difficult to assess its work from the brief extracts I heard. I liked the extracts from sym 4 and 6. Hmmmmm..... more cds!!! Which works do you recommend?

Cheers
Dennis

Hello Petershott

I am turning into a keen admirer of Klami's music! I am awaiting delivery of the vc (due any day now) and yesterday received the cd of his works for piano and strings. I listened to this cd this morning and was very taken with his second piano concerto. Reminded me strongly of Prokofiev in places (in particular Prokofiev's war sonatas!). As readers of this forum know, I love Prokofiev's music, so it is no surprise that Klami's pc was so appealing to me. This led me to a detailed search on the internet for Klami's pc number 1 "Une nuit à Montmartre". Sadly, I found no trace of this work on cd. I have sent an email to proarts.fi asking them about this work but I wondered in the meantime whether you were familiar with this work and might know if it is available somewhere? I would very much appreciate any info you can give me.

Cheers
Dennis