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Messages - Holger

#1
Composers & Music / Re: Dimitrie Cuclin (1885-1978)
Thursday 10 October 2024, 16:38
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 10 October 2024, 14:39As to 17 being clearly in D major, I'd be cautious though, as I've tried to judge works' keys from broadcasts and failed to account for the sort of thing that can make a C-sharp minor work e.g. -sound- a half-tone off...

Eric, having listened to tons of broadcast recordings and LP transfers myself, you can be sure that I am well aware of problems of this sort, and I do take them into account. In the case of LPs, it is typically a question of an incorrectly adjusted turntable, while in the case of broadcasts, it's often about aging tapes / cassettes. Even then, you can still make a sort of educated guess without a score at hand, for instance if you are able to identify open strings.

Anyhow, the Cuclin broadcast is from internet radio, which doesn't mean of course everything is 100% waterproof but nevertheless such problems appear much less frequently. It's not the only reason for identifying the symphony as Cuclin 17 anyway – "with (very) high probability", if this helps...

As for the work itself, while still watching out for Cuclin updates, I am afraid I am mostly with Alan.
#2
Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: B. Stavenhagen 2nd PC
Tuesday 09 July 2024, 15:24
Well, I for my share can enjoy it the way it is, even with a slight smile here and there, which I would not say about Wilhelmj-Raff. In fact, we shouldn't forget it's a work from 1912 (and if Terry cannot stand the excerpts from the first two movements available at Presto then it's rather more linked to the music itself). Same year as, for instance, Gernsheim's Violin Concerto No. 2, which also employs a glockenspiel here and there. Still a matter of dose, of course, and Link certainly overdid things (maybe even on purpose, I assume he might have aimed at highlighting certain aspects). Anyhow, it is a mild curiosity but not as much as I would have thought based upon reading the comments.
#3
Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: B. Stavenhagen 2nd PC
Monday 08 July 2024, 17:59
It seems to be a reissue of the old CD, so yes, it must be Link's orchestration, which is however neither modernistic nor horrible (just maybe not completely idiomatic).
#4
Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: B. Stavenhagen 2nd PC
Monday 08 July 2024, 16:51
In fact, the issue has been discussed several years ago right here:
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3545.0.html
At the end I also wrote a bit about Joachim-Dietrich Link.
#5
Composers & Music / Re: Langgaard's 3rd Symphony
Saturday 25 May 2024, 18:09
Later in his life, Langgaard felt very much akin to Gade as documented in this interview:
http://www.langgaard.dk/litt/interv/etdramae.htm
and the classicism of many of Langgaard's later works does mirror this in some sense. However, the Third is an early work, and at least in terms of music Gade does not play a major role here. Whether the scoring is influenced by Gade is a different question, it could of course but on the other hand Langgaard was kind of an eccentric (mildly put) all over his life, so he did not necessarily need a role model for an unusual scoring, labeling or whatever sort of artistic decision.
#6
Composers & Music / Re: A Myaskovsky Clarinet Concerto?
Friday 19 January 2024, 18:53
It very much depends on which time we talk about. During Stalinism, pressure was most intense (and if we were sure it's a concerto from 1950 I would say a Soviet author should be as good as impossible), while in later years, the variety of styles among Soviet composers is actually large (much larger than commonly assumed), so that I don't really think we can exclude a Soviet composer for reasons of style. To see that a Hindemithian approach was certainly no risk, just keep in mind how many Soviet composers tried dodecaphony (so, even more modernist tendencies) in the 1960s. This said, of course there is also some possibility it's not a work by a Soviet composer, that's correct of course. For instance, I have a Melodiya LP from ca. 1980 with pieces for clarinet and piano by Martinů, Glazachev (Ukraine), Poulenc and Podkovyrov (Belarus), indicating that stuff from abroad was also played (of course).
#7
Composers & Music / Re: A Myaskovsky Clarinet Concerto?
Friday 19 January 2024, 16:32
The Clarinet Concerto is definitely a misattribution, it is far away from anything in Myaskovsky's output. The question by whom it might be is really difficult to answer and I am afraid that even Onno's site might not really help since it only represents the tip of the iceberg. There were hundreds if not thousands of Soviet composers, and it might be by anyone. Just to point out one name, the Russian wikipedia article on Vladimir Sokolov tells us that David Krivitsky (1937–2010) wrote a clarinet concerto for Sokolov. However, checking whether it might be this piece seems to be impossible.
#8
Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Dubois Symphony No.3
Tuesday 26 December 2023, 15:41
Just as a minor point, the symphony is actually from 1915. See here:
https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.3_(Dubois%2C_Th%C3%A9odore)
and in particular the date at the end of the score. It was however published in 1923, and by then Dubois will certainly have added the dedication to the memory of Saint-Saëns.
#9
Composers & Music / Re: Wilhelm Peterson-Berger on Film
Thursday 09 November 2023, 10:14
Yes, the third link does not work, the correct one is
Vi och vår nya Röda Kvarn – Reportage från Östersund (1935)
Anyway, many thanks to Justin for pointing out these fascinating documents!
#10
Composers & Music / Re: Parry 4 >>> Elgar 1?
Friday 27 October 2023, 11:07
Alan, I somehow had in my memory you actually did a comparison between the two versions a few years back, and indeed, starting from here:
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6860.msg74153.html#msg74153
there is some discussion with similar results as in this new topic.
#11
Just as a quick reply to Eric's comment (I perfectly understood Mark's, all OK here): true indeed. If Brian Newbould orchestrates (or even completes) Schubert fragments he will do it in a manner which is as close to Schubert as possible (even if of course, a perfect match is impossible) – in a way, it's something scholarly, also reflecting the possibilities of the instruments Schubert had access to and so on. However, once a composer like the ones discussed here deals with orchestrating, say, chamber music by Brahms or whatever, the point will almost never be an imitation but rather an adaption which reflects the creative personality of the arranger up to some degree – so, it's much more something artistic in this case: the question is no longer "What might Schubert (or ...) have done?" but rather "What do I want to do with the material, how do I perceive it?". Another example would be Paul Dessau's Symphonische Mozart-Adaption nach dem Quintett KV 615.
#12
Just as a quick comment: Certainly, neither Holloway nor Schönberg had the intention to do an orchestration which sounds "like Brahms", and of course, both were / are perfectly aware of their result differing from Brahms' own approach, bearing their own fingerprint (even intentionally so), reflecting their own choices, their view on the music, a sort of composed interpretation. In this sense, Holloway certainly did not "fail".
#13
Goltermann's Fourth Cello Concerto (in G Major, Op. 65) is a sort of student concerto (I played it myself in my cello lessons years ago). Not that difficult but a tuneful and attractive piece, something you can learn from and at the same time just enjoy.
#14
Certainly one of the most interesting new releases of these days!
#15
Composers & Music / Re: Bernhard Stavenhagen 1862-1914
Wednesday 27 July 2022, 08:14
Recently, I bought the CD with Stavenhagen's A Major Piano Concerto – years after this discussion. In fact, as Gareth suggested contacting Joachim-Dietrich Link at some point, I should add that this is no longer possible – Link (b. 1925) already died in 2001. He was a composer himself, in his earlier years he seems to have written two operas and a symphony, for instance, but also quite a bunch of film music.

His orchestration of the concerto is certainly not very idiomatic and probably does not even really try to be. However, as I was expecting a vibraphone as suggested by Gareth, I should add that Link actually does not employ this instrument. Sure there is a lot of glockenspiel (most probably much more than in Stavenhagen's original score if at all), often also combined with a harp, but no vibraphone.