Mendelssohn string symphony 7...

[eschiss1]

now available at http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Symphony_No.7_in_D_minor,_MWV_N_7_(Mendelssohn,_Felix) , and I've always - well, not always - wondered something...
Almost all recordings of this, in the 3rd movement, have a truncated "Menuetto". That is, one hears Menuetto, then trio, then finale- no reprise da capo of the Menuetto as would have  been assumed (if not asked for otherwise). So I had a look at the score at the university library.

And indeed, the score does not include a notation "da capo"- but doesn't specifically request otherwise, either. Apparently Mendelssohn, or perhaps Wolff, omitted it...

A moderate number of works from the 1700s and early 1800s, I think, especially if you include works written for private study and apprentice work like Mendelssohn's early compositions mostly were -  do omit this sort of notation (specifically this notation and other kinds too) precisely because it would have been assumed. This is one of those circumstances where I can see us making fun of early 20th-century, performance practice-deaf recordings not getting it, but ... when the score hasn't even been available for performance until recently anyway and only one recording I've ever heard "gets it" (and takes the da capo)... (I don't even remember which one- I don't know what kind of performance it was or who was performing, though they were definitely worthy of praise on that point...)

er... erm. ... ah well. the string symphonies and other early Mendelssohn works (whose scores are available online in some areas because copyright has expired - so enjoy - that part is more important ) are at imslp.org - have fun!

[Delicious Manager]

A have just checked this with my period-instrument (and highly-researched) recording by The Hanover Band under Roy Goodman. Sadly, no illumination on the subject in the booklet, but definitely no da capo after the trio, suggesting that it is correct not to have a return of the Minuet. Interesting how the finale resembles the last movement of the Italian Symphony a little.

Slightly askance of topic: has anyone heard the full orchestra version of Mendelssohn's String Symphony No 8? He expanded the orchestration to include additional double woodwind, 2 horns, 2 trumpets and timpani immediately after finishing the string-only version in November 1822. I think it's absolutely delightful and should really be considered Mendelssohn's first fully orchestra symphony.

[eschiss1]

yes, a few times- first, I think, in a class I took in college on instrumentation and orchestration approached historically (iirc). (well-taught, I thought, but it was the last of several courses I took with that professor and I still think very well of him. he pointed out for instance how Mendelssohn made sure that the winds usually entered around the octave, perhaps even the note, where they were last heard - a matter of continuity he could learn from the study of Mozart and Haydn scores though he was, our teacher felt, unlikely to have learned it from Zelter! There are a couple of recordings of it in this form  ?- at least one comes to mind immediately without my having to check- made in East Germany as part of a completish (may not have no.13, not sure) set for the Eterna label (I think? ) under, I think, Masur's direction and remastered/reissued on the label Berlin Classics awhile back.

[TerraEpon]

Slightly askance of topic: has anyone heard the full orchestra version of Mendelssohn's String Symphony No 8? He expanded the orchestration to include additional double woodwind, 2 horns, 2 trumpets and timpani immediately after finishing the string-only version in November 1822. I think it's absolutely delightful and should really be considered Mendelssohn's first fully orchestra symphony.

Not sure how often it's been recorded, but it's on the BIS recording (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=8033&name_role1=1&comp_id=3098&genre=55&label_id=73&bcorder=1956)
I like it a lot, personally.

[JimL]

Slightly askance of topic: has anyone heard the full orchestra version of Mendelssohn's String Symphony No 8? He expanded the orchestration to include additional double woodwind, 2 horns, 2 trumpets and timpani immediately after finishing the string-only version in November 1822. I think it's absolutely delightful and should really be considered Mendelssohn's first fully orchestra symphony.

It was broadcast on KUSC recently.  IMHO it shoud be numbered his 6th Symphony, WoO whatever.

[Delicious Manager]

IMHO it shoud be numbered his 6th Symphony, WoO whatever.

Actually, it might be a good opportunity to re-number the Mendelssohn symphonies into the order they were written!

Symphony No 1 in D major (1822) (the orchestral version of String Symphony No 8 )
Symphony No 2 in C minor (Op 11) (1824) (the current 'Symphony No 1')
Symphony No 3 in D major (Op 107) Reformation(1830) (the current 'Symphony No 5')
Symphony No 4 in A major (Op 90) Italian (1833) (retaining its current status of 'Symphony No 4')
Symphony No 5 in B flat (Op 52) Hymn of Praise/Lobgesang (1840) (the current 'Symphony No 2')
Symphony No 6 in A minor (Op 42) Scottish (1842) (the current 'Symphony No 3')

Just a flight of fancy - I like things neat and tidy (and corrrect!).

[eschiss1]

hrm. but how about the (authentic, though sketchy and needing completion by other hands) final thoughts to the A major, etc. ...
tidy is not an expression I'd ever use to describe the situation there - he withdrew - two? - of them after performance (not even counting the early symphonies).

[Delicious Manager]

hrm. but how about the (authentic, though sketchy and needing completion by other hands) final thoughts to the A major, etc. ...
tidy is not an expression I'd ever use to describe the situation there - he withdrew - two? - of them after performance (not even counting the early symphonies).

I feel they might only be relevant if anyone ever performed that version of the Italian. And I know of only two recordings ever made of the revised version. Even then, I think the 'original' version should determine the numbering (as in Bruckner's symphonies in their various permutations).

That might make an interesting thread: "How many instances do people know where a composer has produced a revised version of a work, but that the original version is always favoured today?".

[TerraEpon]

One I can think of is Rismky-Korsakov's Antar, which has four versions, and the third is the usual one performed.

Another is Rachmaninov's Morceaux de Fantaisie, a set of five pieces, which has two pieces usually recorded in their original rather than revised versions.