Victor Herbert (1859-1924)

[Peter1953]

Finally I bought the Cello Concertos opp. 8&30 by Victor Herbert, the Irish-born, German-raised American composer. The First is a nice concerto, according to the booklet notes premiered in 1885 and performed again in 1975. The Second (1894) even entered the standard repertoire (until when?) and should have had a strong influence on Dvořák's Cello Concerto (1894-95, premiered in 1896).
Cellist Lynn Harrell has noted a number of similarities between the two concertos, and these are undoubtedly true, but after listening a few times to Herbert's Second I must say that there is a very huge gap in melodic level and thematic development between the two. The Dvořák is so much more majestic.

Herbert composed a lot of music and there are a few other works available on CD. I'm not yet stimulated to explore more of Herbert's music, but I'm wondering what other members think of his concertos and other musical output.

[alberto]

I bought the Harrell recording of the concertos a lot of years ago. I found mostly the second agreable and later left the record resting on the shelf.
Instead, since the days of LP, I have strong affection for two works of the light Herbert (who, here, relies on folksongs or popular songs):
"Irish Rhapsody" (L.Lane and Cleveland Orch. , EPIC LP; R.Hayman on CD Naxos 8.555016).
"American Fantasia" (E.Kunzel and Cincinnati Pops, LP Vox; and later the same on CD Regis 1018).

[JimL]

Having the Herbert 2 coupled with the Dvorak (with Yo Yo Ma), I'd love it if someone, somewhere, would record the 1st without the 2nd, maybe coupled with some of the symphonic music (I believe he has a tone poem based on Hero and Leander, and the Rhapsodies).

[britishcomposer]

The Columbus Suite has been recorded by naxos:
http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Herbert-Columbus-Rhapsody-Auditorium/dp/B00004SYG8/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1309102041&sr=1-1
Quite a jolly piece and quite ambitious. I tended to take him not all too seriously until I heard this. The concertos are fine, too, of course. I wouldn't compare the 2nd to Dvorak though. There is more similarity to Saint-Saens 1st.

[eschiss1]

I should check to see if his suite in 5 movements for cello or violin and orchestra (or piano), op.3 (pub. by Zumsteeg, 1884) has ever been recorded.
With opus no. (mostly publication dates, partial list) -
Op.3- suite
Op.4- song "Blümlein am Herzen" (1884)
Op.5- "Der Schönheit Krone" for men's chorus (1884)
Op.8- Concerto No.1
Op.12- Serenade in F for strings (1889)
Op.14- 4 Songs (1889-1890)
Op.15- 3 Songs (1888)
Op.18- 2 Songs for medium voice? (1891)
Op.20- 2 Songs for Men's Chorus (1890)
Op.25- Der Gefangene, Cantata (1891)
Op.30- Concerto No.2 (1898?)

Some other works mentioned in HMB and elsewhere - Prinz Ananias. (comic opera) (1895), The Wizard of the Nile (1896), Amerikanische Fantasie (1898), Irish Rhapsody (composed? 1892), quite a few songs and operettas mentioned on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

[jerfilm]

I've long been a Herbert fan feeling a bit sorry for the "serious" composer whose concert music got lost in his operetta fame.  So I've spent years collecting odds and ends of his output.  In addition to the works already mentioned.....

Columbus Suite
Auditoreum Festival Overture
Natuoma: suite
Fall of a Nation - silent film score
The Red Mill - orchestral excerpts
Serenade for strings, opus 12
Festival March
Hero and Leander, opus 31
Suite for cello and orchestra, opus 3
Suite of Serenades for piano and orchestra - quite possibly orch. by someone else
Five pieces for cello and strings (orch. Dennison)

Jerry

[chill319]

I heard Farrell perform the Herbert concerto live relatively recently. The audience, many of whom probably learned about Herbert from the program notes, gave the piece and performance a very warm reception indeed. The music held up well and never descended into reflexive sentimentality. I daresay it challenged its original audiences.

The score, with its adventurous formal construction, jagged melodies, and syncopations appears to me like late Schumann extended by another personality, who, unlike Dvorak, bypassed Brahms (and Brahms's ineffable intimations of nobility).

[eschiss1]

actually, I should have just gone here (Wikipedia's longer list of his works ).

I seem to recall my father praising also (not only) some of the non-musical aspects of Herbert's career. (I'll ask him in a couple of months in person or sooner more remotely...) (Harrell, I think, not Farrell, unless we have another case of an actor taking up an instrument, which I do not wish to deprecate but rather to encourage, if any good at it.)

[JimL]

...Op.30- Concerto No.2 (1898?)...

Aw, c'mon, Eric, I would expect better from you even as a guess (unless you're going by publication date).  How could Herbert's 2nd CC have inspired Dvorak's B minor Concerto of 1894-5 if it came out 3-4 years later?  The year it was premiered was 1893.

[eschiss1]

those were all publication dates- sorry 'bout (of course, even "first publication date" gets complicated very often - in which form? in an edition? ... usually if you see the name of an editor it's not a first edition- but not if that editor made it publishable from an unpublished manuscript (and this is not always clear on earlier scores, e.g. Wilhelm Hill's string quartet, where I had to find out this is probably what happened from a biographical page about the composer). Go from "date of first publication" to "dates of composition" and "date of first performance" and the level of complication makes headaches for people other than just perpetually headache-ready me...)