Influence of unsung composers on fellow composers in the Romantic era

[Peter1953]

I don't know whether this subject has been discussed before in another thread or our former forum, if so, please accept my apologies.

I came to this thread after listening again to Röntgen's lovely VC's. I was thinking, did Röntgen developed a style of his own? Can I recognize a piece of music as typically Röntgen? No, despite the fact that his music is so very tuneful and memorable. And he created all the themes by himself, that's for sure.

We all know that German composers like Van Beethoven, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms and of course also Wagner (and Liszt) had an enormous influence on other composers. How many unsung (and sung) composers developed significantly a style of their own, not strongly influenced by those Big Names? (Rufinatscha comes to mind as an example.)

My question is, do we know of unsung composers who evidently influenced other composers (unsung and/or even sung)?

Another question is, how strong was the German musical influence in non-German countries?

[Jimfin]

I think Parry had a very distinctive style and could be argued to have more or less invented an English musical style, and his influence was very strong on Elgar and Vaughan Williams at least. Havergal Brian (sorry to bring him up yet again, but...) has a very definitely, unmistakeable style and he at least influenced Simpson strongly.

[Mark Thomas]

Raff's influence was especially strong in the field of orchestration. Richard Strauss acknowledged the influence on him, which was reinforced as his mentor Alexander Ritter was a friend and pupil of Raff's. The clearest example of Raff's influence, and over a non-German composer at that, is Tchaikovsky. There are quite a few passages in Raff orchestral compositions which "sound like" Tchaikovsky until you realise that they pre-date the Tchaikovsky work. The most blatant example, because Tchaikovsky lifts a melody as well as its orchestral treatment almost whole from Raff, is the slow movement of the Russian's Fifth Symphony (1888) and the corresponding movement of Raff's Tenth (1879-81) - see here for examples illustrating this.

[regriba]

In the field of opera Meyerbeer was quite influential for a time (on e. g. Verdi) until he was overtaken by Wagner.

[Peter1953]

Yes Mark, Raff's influence on Tchaikovsky's Fifth is most certainly evident. BTW, if Raff wasn't such a skillfull orchestrator I suppose Liszt wouldn't have made so much use of his help. A fascinating personality, Raff.

[saxtromba]

Anton Rubinstein's influence was quite large.  Janacek wanted very much to study with Rubinstein (according to Janacek himself, his letter asking about composition lesson chased Rubinstein around Europe for a year, then returned unopened), and Rubinstein's Op. 99 Piano Quintet was among the scores Janacek retained until he died (there are moments in R's work, and not just the Quintet, which sound somewhat 'Janacekien').  Isaac Albeniz was known as 'the Spanish Rubinstein', and not just for his playing (his concerto echoes both R's first and third).  And of course Tchaikovsky studied with Rubinstein, and there are little flashes of influence all over T's music.  Stojowoski dedicated one of his piano concertos, and Asger Hamerik dedicated his first symphony, to Rubinstein.

[eschiss1]

Volkmann on Tchaikovsky- both symphonic as is fairly well-known, and also later with serenades (Tchaikovsky mentions playing through one of the former's string serenades in his letters, I'm fairly sure before embarking on his own )... (sorry about the sentence fragment)

(And yes the influence of Gade's works - e.g. his piano sonata - on similar early works by Grieg, as I recall. Gade and Volkmann are well-known to many forum regulars but outside the forum I expect generally not so much.
It's been conjectured that Alkan's piano sonata may have influenced Liszt's B minor but I've seen back-and-forth about this and am interested but not convinced- by the thought, that is; the works themselves seem convincing enough pieces ! )

[JimL]

In the field of opera Meyerbeer was quite influential for a time (on e. g. Verdi) until he was overtaken by Wagner.

Well, Meyerbeer's influence on Wagner, especially Rienzi is plain for all to hear, and, of course, vigorously denied by Wagner in his trashing of the older man and his operas.