Re Hiller symphony in F minor

[eschiss1]

(Also, while I don't see an autograph on the score, which Worldcat claims is an autograph ms., all the corrections strongly suggest this is no one's fair-copy... or a ms copy by a very very poor copyist (I can sympathize... arthritis maybe... er, hush, Eric. )

[Gareth Vaughan]

should I add credit to Mr. Vaughan (and possibly others) in the cello part at least?

Absolutely not!

By the way, for what it's worth, this is almost certainly an autograph MS. No copyist would dare produce something so messy!

[eschiss1]

Yes, indeed had a similar thought and marked as much @ IMSLP (well, I did hedge a little half-humorously as above there too.. who (hypothetical thoughtless copyist), carrying on the hypothetical ,  might have felt they could get away with such for such an early work, I didn't write. Still, Hiller had already published his first three or so, maybe more (the first two piano quartets, a cello and piano duo, maybe even the first piano concerto already...) - or more; there's some evidence of some lost works that may or may not have been published - or just announced... - by Steyl even ca.1828/1829 , as I recall, string quartets and a set of variations I think?... anyway, quite a few works by 1830, to-when this work's been approximately dated, so... for all that he was only 19 and I think still a pupil or recently a pupil of Hummel and possibly also Rochlitz? I need to reread biography there..., his composing was getting underway, it seems.)

[eschiss1]

The symphony was fwiw finished as late as 1833 possibly- there's an autograph ms thematic catalog of Hiller's works from 1832-37 at the same website (Frankfurt), with two entries I see (I'm not quite done looking) for the F minor symphony- October 1832, and New finale for the F minor symphony July 1833. (Thanks to Cypressdome for pointing that out...) (Since works appear in the thematic catalog that were composed and even published before 1832, early on in it anyway, it's possible that all one can say with certainty is composed-by-1832. Though I gather that there may have been an earlier catalog by him in which some of them went, as this is labeled (by the scanner, not the composer) "Band II", so they didn't all get stuck in here from his first work on- I am guessing...)

Ah, there is also, at the same site, Tagebuch für meine Compositionen : vom 30. August 1825 in Weimar - bis zum 6. November 1831 in Passy.

[eschiss1]

Also, have uploaded a preliminary, needs work (need to put in the dal segno sigils, anyway but that I think I can figure out) draft of the 2nd movement flute 1 part (302 bars if not miscounted? Lots of rests...) here. C minor Capriccioso, molto vivace with G major (I think...) trio; 78-bar coda (from bars 225 to 302.)

[tpaloj]

This is a superb early romantic Symphony. Owing to Hiller's relatively young status as a composer, the orchestration can sometimes be flawed, but it definitely is listenable and rightly deserves to be showcased.

Where the first movement is tense and dramatic from the start, the later movements take a more joyful tone and colors, culminating in one brilliant, no-holds-barred Finale. Indeed the Finale was the movement I reproduced first, and even with its brief length it's one of my all time favorite Hiller pieces for sure. What a rhythmic, lively masterpiece it is. The writing for wind players throughout, and especially in the Finale, is outstanding. Shades of Mendelssohn are evident owing to his and Hiller's friendship, they bounced a lot of musical ideas off each other during this period of time.

Enjoy! https://youtu.be/ouxZyTEvsHY

[Alan Howe]

It's a very exciting piece, rhythmically speaking. Otherwise, I find it somewhat anonymous, but it may grow on me. Great work, though, tpaloj!!

[Ilja]

To be honest, I found that the first movement barred few holds as well. There must not be a great many symphonies that start con fuoco. It really sounds like a very youthful piece as well, with only a very brief and not particularly contemplative adagio to slow things down for a bit. I think the IMSLP list (which, if I'm not mistaken, is Eric's work) lists this as Hiller's third symphony, and if anything it sounds more boisterous than its supposed predecessor, the C major. A very nice addition to the collection!

[eschiss1]

I'm not positive at this point which of the two versions of the F minor symphony I uploaded. I think it was the slightly earlier one, without the newer finale.

[tpaloj]

Can you elaborate what you mean by two versions of this Symphony, Eric? There used to be an older black-and-white scan of Hiller's autograph on IMSLP, but I used the color scan of that you see in the video which was recently digitized by GUF. Also, GUF catalogues this Symphony – which has no title or date in the autograph – as "Partition" and dates it circa 1875, but this is incorrect information as we know this is the Symphony in F minor dating from 1832-33 thanks to Hiller's composition diary from this period.

The orchestration is much improved already from his Faust-Overture from 1831 even if this is still an early, youthful work as you point out Ilja.

I think the IMSLP list (which, if I'm not mistaken, is Eric's work) lists this as Hiller's third symphony, and if anything it sounds more boisterous than its supposed predecessor, the C major. A very nice addition to the collection!

...I'm positive that the C major symphony that I studied a few years ago was composed in the 1870s. I was already skeptical of its supposed 1830s dating when I first saw the score, and since then I've become certain. The latest piece of that dating puzzle comes via a recent digitization of a different Hiller work, "Drei Fantasiestücke", another orchestral piece from the 1870s, which uses the same manuscript paper than the C major symphony, is orchestrated in similar fashion and handwriting, instrumentation etc etc. If there was another C major symphony Hiller wrote in the 1830s, so be it, but it certainly cannot be the piece that I made that Noteperformer recreation video of.

Make no mistake, the case of Hiller's early symphonies is very confusing and complex thanks to confusion in sources, missing manuscripts, destroyed works and incomplete catalogues and composition diaries.

By the way, for some additional Hiller trivia, GUF recently digitized Hiller's earliest opera score "Caesario" (based on Shakespeare's What you will) which looks like it belongs in the Liszt Don Sanche category of operas... It was thoroughly condemned by his Weimar teachers, and there were no attempts to ever finish the score or stage it. Looking at the start of its Overture, it's very dire stuff indeed... take a look at your own peril, for true Hiller enthusiasts' eyes only

https://sammlungen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/musikhs/content/titleinfo/12280582

[Reverie]

Many thanks tpaloj

Thanks too for giving us the score to follow. Yes it does sound youthful but that is what is so delightful. I particularly like the rustic finale with it's twists and turns.

[eschiss1]

iirc Hiller lists the F minor symphony twice in the pair of uploaded ms catalogs he maintained of his early works (with a large gap). The second entry may have just been for a new finale (possibly only one of the two finales, I think the older one, is available digitized.)