British Music

[Alan Howe]

Thanks very much for the full reply. Very helpful!

[albion]

Thanks very much for the full reply. Very helpful!

Ditto. Daniel Jones' music has taken me a little while to get into, but now I'm attuned to it I also regard it very highly indeed - and No.2 is one of my favourites.

This issue of having to 'spend time' with a composer really does point out the vital necessity for recordings that can be played, played and played again. When these symphonies (and so many other works by so many other composers) were first heard, unless they got second and third performances and you were fortunate enough to attend them all, there would be minimal chance for a listener to even begin to appreciate and enjoy (let alone understand) what the composer had striven to give to the world.

With a symphonic cycle of such stature (whose technical 'solidity' and serious import often reminds me of Rubbra), I think that Jones is revealed as one of the truly significant British composers of the twentieth-century.

[Dundonnell]

Thanks very much for the full reply. Very helpful!

Ditto. Daniel Jones' music has taken me a little while to get into, but now I'm attuned to it I also regard it very highly indeed - and No.2 is one of my favourites.

This issue of having to 'spend time' with a composer really does point out the vital necessity for recordings that can be played, played and played again. When these symphonies (and so many other works by so many other composers) were first heard, unless they got second and third performances and you were fortunate enough to attend them all, there would be minimal chance for a listener to even begin to appreciate and enjoy (let alone understand) what the composer had striven to give to the world.

With a symphonic cycle of such stature (whose technical 'solidity' and serious import often reminds me of Rubbra), I think that Jones is revealed as one of the truly significant British composers of the twentieth-century.

Couldn't agree more-particularly with the last sentence

It was my earnest hope that Chandos would get Richard Hickox to record a Jones cycle with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales but, tragically, such a possibility was denied Hickox was exactly the conductor to do it, as he demonstrated with his Rubbra symphonic cycle for that label. An earlier possibility was the late Bryden Thomson...but, again, alas...

But at least we are moving here to having all the symphonies and  a substantial quantity of the orchestral and choral music available for download

Incidentally, I have argued elsewhere that the European composer of whom I am most reminded when listening to Daniel Jones is the wonderful Danish symphonist Vagn Holmboe. Holmboe, coincidentally, also wrote thirteen symphonies but both composers share, it seems to me, a genuine sense of symphonic development, not simply within each symphony but throughout the entire corpus. There is with both a single-minded sense of real purpose, a seriousness, an unflinching determination to go their own way quite regardless of musical fashion and a paring down of their expression  towards shorter and tauter symphonies over time.
It is no accident that Jones largely avoided London or the wider musical scene in favour of remaining in South Wales where he had grown up or that he appears to have remarkably little interest in the work of other composers.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Just to add my voice to the choir of grateful members. Splendid job, Holger! And yes - I'd recommend Symphony No. 2 also - it's a great piece, which manages to be both serious and magical.

[albion]

All taken from the radio, again no dates of broadcasting available however.

Dates for the recordings are almost certainly as follows -

Symphony No.1 in E minor - BBC Welsh SO/ Bryden Thomson (br. 12/1/1990)

Symphony No.5 - BBC SO/ Daniel Jones (Proms performance, 27/7/1959)

Sinfonietta No.1 - BBC Welsh SO/ Bryden Thomson (Proms performance, 3/9/1982)

Symphony No.11, In memoriam George Froom Tyler - BBC Welsh SO/ Charles Groves (br. 2/1/1984)

Symphony in memory of John Fussell [Symphony No.13] - BBC Welsh SO/ Richard Hickox (br. 7/12/1992)

- still trying to track down a likely candidate for Ieuenctid!

[Holger]

All taken from the radio, again no dates of broadcasting available however.

Dates for the recordings are almost certainly as follows -

Symphony No.1 in E minor - BBC Welsh SO/ Bryden Thomson (br. 12/1/1990)

Symphony No.5 - BBC SO/ Daniel Jones (Proms performance, 27/7/1959)

Sinfonietta No.1 - BBC Welsh SO/ Bryden Thomson (Proms performance, 3/9/1982)

Symphony No.11, In memoriam George Froom Tyler - BBC Welsh SO/ Charles Groves (br. 2/1/1984)

Symphony in memory of John Fussell [Symphony No.13] - BBC Welsh SO/ Richard Hickox (br. 7/12/1992)

- still trying to track down a likely candidate for Ieuenctid!

Thanks, Albion!

I should add that these are copies I got from other collectors in various exchanges. I haven't recorded them myself - no wonder, as even in case of the latest broadcast (Symphony No. 13) I was just six years old!

The Ieuenctid Overture seems to have been broadcasted together with Alan Rawsthorne's Hallé Overture which is on the same cassette, alas I don't have performers for the latter either so I am not sure whether this helps.

[eschiss1]

Re Gaze Cooper's piano concerto no.3 op.71 - would someone who has seen the score of this work at some point (there is no hurry) maybe confirm that the music represented as being this, is this? This sounds to me like it could be a somewhat badly recorded (though otherwise nice to listen to in my honest opinion) chamber work for piano and strings (and I see he did write a piano quartet). While Cadensa doesn't seem to provide any information on recordings of those by Cooper either, it might still be marginally easier to find a broadcasting date if the work's identity is known surely...

[albion]

Re Gaze Cooper's piano concerto no.3 op.71 - would someone who has seen the score of this work at some point (there is no hurry) maybe confirm that the music represented as being this, is this? This sounds to me like it could be a somewhat badly recorded (though otherwise nice to listen to in my honest opinion) chamber work for piano and strings (and I see he did write a piano quartet).

I can't confirm either way - the title of the file as it was sent to me is Piano Concerto No.3. To me it sounds as though the intention (not always perfectly realised on the recording) is to present a work for piano and string orchestra - there is clearly more than one player on each string line. In addition, the piano is very much the key player to an extent that perhaps belies the idea of it as chamber music per se. Perhaps more of a chamber concerto for piano and strings?

[albion]

Re Gaze Cooper's piano concerto no.3 op.71 - would someone who has seen the score of this work at some point (there is no hurry) maybe confirm that the music represented as being this, is this? This sounds to me like it could be a somewhat badly recorded (though otherwise nice to listen to in my honest opinion) chamber work for piano and strings (and I see he did write a piano quartet).

I can't confirm either way - the title of the file as it was sent to me is Piano Concerto No.3. To me it sounds as though the intention (not always perfectly realised on the recording) is to present a work for piano and string orchestra - there is clearly more than one player on each string line. In addition, the piano is very much the key player to an extent that perhaps belies the idea of it as chamber music per se. Perhaps more of a chamber concerto for piano and strings?

Indeed it is - I've just found this useful information (written by Rob Barnett): The third concerto (piano and strings, Opp. 47 or 71) was given by Joyce Hatto with conductor, Martin Fogell at the Wigmore Hall, Kensington in 1954. It was repeated by the same artists, at Nottingham's Queen's Hall on 6 February 1955. The NSO were the orchestra on that occasion. This concerto was written on a train journey from London to Nottingham and was completed in ten days.

The recording doesn't sound like a public performance, so perhaps it was a trial run through with a local pianist, or (most likely) a private recording made for the composer.

[semloh]

A propos Barbara Clamp - I tracked down a Dr. Clamp who grew up in Nottingham, and currently runs a medical practice there, and asked her if she knew who said pianist might be. I thought it was unlikely that there would be many "Clamps" based in Nottingham so was quite hopeful, but no luck. She had never heard of a Barbara Clamp. Worth a try though!
If it was a pseudonym one would have to wonder why... the commonest reason for using a pseudonym on records used to be to avoid a potential contractual problem. If it wasn't a pseudonym it is odd that she can not be traced....

[albion]

it was unlikely that there would be many "Clamps" based in Nottingham

Alas, the only clamps to be found where I live in Nottingham are those self-applied by car-owners to prevent their wheels being stolen.



It's a pity that Barbara couldn't have got together with Nora Clench -



"Clamp and Clench" has a certain (perhaps unpleasantly medical) ring to it.

[semloh]

it was unlikely that there would be many "Clamps" based in Nottingham

Alas, the only clamps to be found where I live in Nottingham are those self-applied by car-owners to prevent their wheels being stolen.



It's a pity that Barbara couldn't have got together with Nora Clench -



"Clamp and Clench" has a certain (perhaps unpleasantly medical) ring to it.

Could be the start of a challenging new thread....

[Mark Thomas]

Looks more like Hinge & Bracket to me!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Very good! 

[Dundonnell]

Partly at least in continuing gratitude for the quite amazing quantity of music I have been able to access for the first time from this forum..........

I have now listened to around three-quarters of my own collection of taped British music. I have-I hope-all the necessary technology now to digitise the collection and should be able to start around the middle of next week.

It would be my intention to make it available in phases rather than wait longer to have the lot coming up here en masse. We are-after all-talking about in excess of 115 pieces of British orchestral and choral music not otherwise available .

I also plan to get the music up first and then to play around with the Audacity programme I have downloaded to try to improve the sound quality of particular works.