Vibrato

[John H White]

At tonight's Prom, Roger Norrington  the conductor once again affirmed  his view that vibrato should not be used by string players unless especially called for by the composer. In this case, he was conducting a vibrato free performance of Mahler's 9th symphony. He says that extensive use of vibrato by string players was only introduced in the early part of the 20th Century. Is he right?

[britishcomposer]

John, I think he is right, BUT...

I'll give you a quote by John Quinn, reviewing a concert from last years Three Choirs Festival, Norrington conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra in Elgar's Violin Concerto:

'Why didn't composers and conductors resist the spread of vibrato among orchestral payers in the first decades of the last century? Could it have been that they recognised an improvement when they heard it?'

The review is worth reading in full:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2010/Jul-Dec10/three_choirs1008.htm

I am in no way against applying historically informed performance practice but one should be careful. I think Norrington is overstepping.

[JimL]

I think vibrato first started becoming a fixture after the generation of violinists (and, I suppose other string players) taught by Wieniawski started to teach in musical academia.  His school of violin playing was considered innovative for its use of vibrato.

[Amphissa]

I encourage everyone to read a blog discussion on this topic by Stephen Hough.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100046034/quaver-or-not-should-orchestras-use-vibrato/

And for a real dust-up, including actual scholarship complete with a vigorously argued "Norrington's Stupid Mahler 9th" --

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/vibratocomposite.asp

David Hurwitz has never been one to beat around the bush. Not for tender sensibilities.

[Alan Howe]

So Norrington's right and everybody else, including those who knew Mahler, e.g. Bruno Walter, is wrong? Not a chance...

[Gareth Vaughan]

Generally speaking, I like Norrington's approach in the Beethoven symphonies (very much) and earlier works - also Schumann - and I'm prepared to go along with it in some Wagner because of the clarity of texture he produces.  I felt, however, that the lack of string vibrato in last night's Mahler 9th was a mistake. I just don't think it was the sort of sound Mahler intended.

[Alan Howe]

Yes, I also very much like RN's Schubert 9. The problem comes with the inability to sustain long lines in later music if there is no vibrato at all. It's almost as if the string section runs out of collective puff...

[Gareth Vaughan]

That's it precisely, Alan.

[Steve B]

Its just changing fashions, dressed up as "good taste"; cf. "heavy"/"inappropriate" rubato in pianism ,but just listen to Reinecke playing Schumann(on piano roll) or Horowitz/Ponti; styles change; and critics churn out their hegemonic hierarchy of "appropriate" style, as they do of composers,(to the detriment of a lot of OUR  favourites).Steve

[Amphissa]

I think Hough made some lucid and convincing points pertaining to string play with modern instruments that clearly contra-indicate Norrington's effort to wipe out vibrato in Romantic style music. I'm fine with no vibrato on period instruments in Classical era repertoire. Listening to my wife practice and play cello, I have come more and more to agree with Hough and Hurwitz, that playing Romantic style music on steel strings without vibrato is just plain unmusical and ugly on the ears. To me, the transition from gut to steel strings necessitates more vibrato in performance technique.

[giles.enders]

If Roger Norrington is right and I feel his views are a matter of taste, then only instruments of the period that the music was written should be used and gut strings where appropriate. Wind instruments of the period would also have to comply as this can also affect the sound and where singers may be involved, no mikes. There should be no spotlighting of solo instruments sound wise either. All metronome markings should be observed particularly when  Beethoven's music is played.  I note that Norrington does not adhere to this.  It is all subjective.  Oh! for the days of Handel with a chorus of a thousand, it sounded much better!

[John H White]

It seems that everyone here has hit the nail on the head.  I, for one, hadn't taken into account the move from gut to steel strings.
  Mind you, I must admit that some unintentional vibrato, amongst other things, probably came into my own playing due to nervousness when I took my Grade 2 'Cello exam earlier this year (at the age of 80!).
    Anyhow, I reckon it would be nice to hear various orchestral works played occasionally on authentic instruments dating from the time of their composition.  One other thought: what should a present day conductor do with a modern orchestra where the strings play habitually play vibrato where, as in Raff's Lenor Symphony, the composer specifies vibrato for a certain passage?
    Lastly, I must humbly apologise to Sir Roger Norrington for de-knighting him.

[chill319]

Oh! for the days of Handel with a chorus of a thousand, it sounded much better!

In Vienna those days were already well underway by the end of the 1780s.

Thanks, Amphissa, for those links. A weak point in Mr Hurwitz's heroic effort is the unstated assumption in its opening pages that performing practices for soloists tell us something about performing traditions amongst the semi-professional/semi-amateur civic orchestras of 19th-century Europe. We must be careful not to generalize too broadly -- which is also my issue with Norrington's brand of "authenticity."

Last year I spent the better part of a day comparing a dozen or so performances of Schumann Symphony 2, going through movement by movement. Haven't done that kind of thing much, and it was a real ear-opener for me. The recordings and performances had many more differences than I would have expected. In this company, the Norrington CD, which I had previously listened to sympathetically, stood out as a recording made under duress, like a symphony in boot camp.

[mbhaub]

I'm not a Norrington fan. I think he's trying to find a niche for himself and appoint himself the expert. And I think he's wrong concerning Mahler. When you look at the whole of music history and performances, it's been a slow, evolutionary quest for more beautiful sound (at least until the electric guitar was invented). All instruments have evolved and the playing technic along with it. Perhaps string players 100 years ago used less or even no vibrato, but then they also used a lot of portamento which today sounds really odd, sentimental, sloppy, and even cheesy. Orchestras today play far better in tune, far more rythmically precise than they did not that long ago. Does Norrington want to go back to that? It's authentic. Norrington may have been a pioneer but I think saner, more musical solutions have been found.

[Artonglind]

I personally love the sound a good orchestra makes when playing without a vibrato. Much clearer, purer, cleaner sound.