Dimitrie Cuclin (1885-1978)

[eschiss1]

Nearest thing I could find was the sonatina which I think dates from 1923, but anyway again use the ear not the eye.

[eschiss1]

(In re dating, if you heard the first movement of Grechaninov's 3rd symphony (in E Op.100) without knowing who wrote it or when it was from, you might, like me, suppose it was composed around the time Borodin's 2nd symphony was composed- not - also- 1923. ... Which is not about Grechaninov, 3rd symphonies, or Opera 100s- but about the foolishness of going by date and not by your ear for anything more than _tentative_ decisions...)

[Alan Howe]

Oh, I agree. But I have actually listened to Cuclin's later music and find that some of it definitely lies beyond UC's remit - hence my question about the possible suitability of his earlier works for discussion here. Trouble is, there's very little to go on. And, quite frankly, I'm not convinced of its quality anyway. Shame there are no CDs available.

In any case, Grechaninov was born 20 years before Cuclin, so one shouldn't really be surprised at the yawning gulf between their respective styles, whatever the dates of their compositions...

[UnsungMasterpieces]

I just found the score of Cuclin's 9th symphony in the catalog of the SLUB Dresden. How a copy of it got there, I don't know.
I didn't really expect to find it listed there!

I also read somewhere earlier in this thread that 'doctorpresume' worked on the score of this symphony and found the recording on YouTube is a shortened version (40 minutes instead of the full 83.)

So now I was wondering if he used this score from the SLUB Dresden and how many pages that one had, because if he didn't use that one then maybe they have a different (perhaps longer?) version. The copy they have there has 415 pages. (I can't check it because it hasn't been digitalized, and it also looks like you have to be a student at their university to log in...)

For those interested, I found it here:
http://katalogbeta.slub-dresden.de/id/0011361388/#detail

[Alan Howe]

I'm afraid I must repeat here that it is not appropriate to discuss music whose style falls outside our remit. We need, for example, to be able to sample the 9th Symphony for there to be further discussion on the subject.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I have sampled the 1st movt of the 9th symphony on You Tube and I reckon it may "just about" fall within our remit. It is very different from the Piano Concerto which definitely does not. Anyway, try it, Alan, and see if you agree. Clearly not all Cuclin's music is appropriate for this forum, but some of it may be - IMHO, of course.

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for that helpful contribution, Gareth. I'll give it a listen a bit later today.

[Alan Howe]

I'm inclined to agree with Gareth on this one. So let's proceed one piece at a time with this composer.

[UnsungMasterpieces]

Just found the 9th symphony in the database of the Romanian National Library as well.
Also there are what are called in Romanian 'Lieduri', which you can translate as 'Lieder' (also by Cuclin of course, but unfortunately there's no way I can view them, so that's kind of a disappointment.)

Furthermore they have a cantata 'Crezul şi Isus înaintea morţii', scored for mixed choir and harmonium, published in 1935 and 'Jocuri populare româneşti', which is a small suite for piano, published in 1942.

[UnsungMasterpieces]

The County Library of Galați also has the score of the 14th symphony, which has 435 pages.

[eschiss1]

Well, iirc, the Research Libraries of the Lincoln Center Library of New York has #14 too - skimmed it (but only that...) years ago during a visit there (when it was still part of Lincoln Center Library and its materials didn't have to be requested weeks in advance etc.)

[UnsungMasterpieces]

I've checked multiple online catalogues of some of the larger Romanian libraries (like in Timisoara, Brasov, Iasi, etc.), trying to track down the 12th symphony, but the only ones I can find are the 9th and 14th. Those keep appearing in the catalogues.

[UnsungMasterpieces]

I've read a Romanian article in a magazine published by the County Library of Galati, and I have new information: Cuclin's 5th symphony has 880 pages, the 1st, 4th and 6th have 317 pages, and the 12th has 1235 pages.
Cuclin obviously liked to write long works!
Some other works are discussed in there as well.

I found it here (from page 36 to 39 (or page 34 to 37, if you don't count the front pages. It's in Romanian though):
https://www.scribd.com/document/215657251/Axis-Libri-Nr-5

Also, reading this makes me think that in all other recordings of his symphonies that we are aware of (1, of course no. 9, 11, 13, 16 & 20) have probably had large portions of score removed, as the article states that the symphonies nos. 1, 4 & 6 have 317 pages, and that those are of 'normal proportions.' A symphony consisting of that much pages probably takes around an hour, possibly more.

[UnsungMasterpieces]

I originally planned to post this way earlier, but I forgot .
Last year I managed to obtain copies of Cuclin's 9th & 14th symphonies.
Both are very big: 415 & 435 pages respectively.
An "older Romanian man" (I don't know anything else about him) apparently travelled through the whole country to find any of Cuclin's works.
He found these two symphonies, copied them and passed them on.
So the message I sent along with the people from the church in my grandparents' village actually yielded some big results actually!
From what I understand, the other symphonies appear to be private property...

[UnsungMasterpieces]

Some time ago a recording of Cuclin's 7th symphony was posted to YouTube. I have a feeling it might be an incomplete recording (considering the amount of cuts that was made in his 9th symphony). Here are the three available movements:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJE9KA5P4GY
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9KHElPbdg
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG6sgKQY2I0
There could be a 4th movement that wasn't recorded, but I haven't found a score of the piece to corroborate that.